organic gardening

Hi everyone,
thought I would pop this question in here as I am not sure where else it may fit in, really. I may stand to be corrected... and if so, pardon my ignorance.
Main train of thought right now - I have been "trained (or brainwashed maybe)" to use chemicals to help with the work in the garden but now I am particularly keen to integrate - to the best of my ability - the organic philosophy. However, my main difficulty is, how does the organic gardener eradicate the likes of ground elder, mares tail, bindweed particularly if growing within the likes of irises, ornamental grasses/bamboos, ground cover plants without investing a wealth of time?
Please, please tell me it can be done! There has to be a trick of the organic trade out there somewhere...
Kindest regards
Roy

 

You dig it up, Roy! :D

A massive job, involving teasing out the roots from in between other plants' roots! Hope you've got plenty of time to do it! :rolleyes:

Seriously - there isn't any other green alternative. You can't use a flame-thrower for obvious reasons, and hoeing isn't possible for other obvious reasons, and the stale seed-bed technique won't work either - so digging it out is all you're left with, in my humble opinion....

If anyone has a better alternative, I'll be only too happy to hear it!!

 

Hi Roy

I would not call myself an organic gardener, but I sympathise. I have hardly used any chemical over the last 4 years and I never use slug pellets. My view is that rather than being an organic fundamentalist, you should be flexible and use as little as possible. I would dig most things out, but occasionally (only happened once with bindweed) you do have to use something like a systemic weedkiller.

 

Peter S - Re slug pellets - garlic granules are sold as being effective - but I don't know from personal experience - have a look here for the nematodes option... http://www.just-green.com/product.asp?cookiecheck=yes&P_ID=127&PT_ID=69

that's supposed to work :rolleyes:

 

Thanks Shiney and Dendro.

One reason I don't like slug pellets is the blue colour. Sounds silly, but you grow plants to make them look nice, and all the blue bits around detract - especially from things in pots.

There is also a sport element - oh I know agricultural realism is politically incorrect. But I grew some Campanula Takesmana from seed. And I read that they are pretty invasive but also loved by slugs. So I planted a few and have just left them to slug it out between theselves. :D

 

:D

 

Dendrobium, like the thought of the flame thrower! In our business though is it practical to dig out the roots at the clients expense? How do "you" approach the client and tell them that to sort this border will take 5 hours or whatever, rather than 1 hour? Look forward to your advice! For those that don't know I, like Dendrobium, am in the garden maintenance/development business.

PeterS and Shiney - a little bit of chemical integration into a mainly organic regime. How about the fact that Glyphosate is based originally on the chemistry of a plant (I think? - memory lapse). Does this make it partially organic?

I would be very interested to learn from someone who has used nematodes to control slugs successfully, and also those that have utilised the new "organic" slug pellets and garlic granules!

Many thanks!
Kind regards
Roy

 

I use the Slug Stoppa granules around seedlings. Slugs can't cross the barrier. All blue pellets are weapons of mass destruction and kill indiscriminately. Once you use any pesticides or insecticides - even organic ones like pyrethum - you risk upsetting the natural balance of your garden. Then, with the creatures that hunt and eat the pests dead - you are in real trouble. It takes ages to right the wrong and get back on track.

 

Agree with that, Hornbeam.

Roy - re digging out roots at clients' expense - it depends on so many things.

If it's something like ground elder in a well established perennial border, as it so often is, then I've usually gone for a two-prong approach. Areas that are accessible to digging, I do that, and keep an eagle eye on it afterwards, hoicking out any ones that I've missed. Then, when the perennials have died back, I lift, divide, and disentangle roots at that point.

If it's really not practical, if the clients aren't really interested in long-term solutions, then I hoe, and keep hoeing. It's not satisfactory from my point of view, but it keeps the garden tidy, which is all some people want. I always explain that you won't get rid of the weeds that way, and why, but they're generally happy enough with that.

Re the nematodes - my mother-in-law has used them in her previous garden, and was very impressed. I ahve a bit of a problem with this, though, as I don't like killing anything, even slugs! And even if it's "green" it's not very friendly! :D

Finally flame-throwers! A bloke who works with me on some jobs has one, and it's very useful in areas like gravel and paving. It's a proper big one - a real dragon! :D

 

Re nematodes. I have never needed to buy them because a healthy organic soil should have them already.

 

I have used the Aluminium Sulphate crystals and they seem to work. Research at Sheffield Uni suggests that the timing of slug pellet applications is far more critical than the quantity. They reckoned you only need one appliction per annum to achieve maximum cost-benefit wrt germinating seedlings. Well that doesn't help those of us with herbaceous borders but it makes you think (as they say).

I'd say if you are serious about going green learn about your slugs. Many of the common ones are carnivorous and eat other slugs, so not a lot of point in poisoning them.

No idea how Dendy gets the time to lift and fiddle with his herbaceous borders. My clients want results (meaning value for money) and to them that usually means seeing instant improvements. I personally believe in such cases it is better to take a scorched earch approach to these serious weeds. Lift anything worthwhile and mess with it as necessary to get it clean, and just total the rest, with a fallow year required. You can use weedkillers, or rotavate regularly (ruins the soil) or dig it over, or hoe it, or a combination of all of those, but take the time to get a clear soil. Then your planting can be allowed to develop as organically as you like, you will be able to keep control of it so much easier. And year on year the organic principle will start to pay off.

 

Dendy's a she, Jazid :rolleyes: But the serious point is that it depends on the customer - most of mine wouldn't have the option of having things fallow for a time, or the space to put things for the time being. But some do understand about digging the stuff out - and are prepared to pay for the time involved. And I'm a very fast and thorough worker!! :D :D You should see my testimonials!! Am I allowed to say that before the watershed??

And I get results all right!!

 

:eek: :eek: :eek: :D