patio slabs

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by welsh_, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. welsh_

    welsh_ Apprentice Gardener

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    Hi, wonder if anyone can advise me please. I have had work done in the garden 40m of fencing, relevel my garden, and 100 extra patio slabs around the existing patio. The problem I have now is the slabs he layed are coming loose, its only been 4 weeks.
    The original patio has been down for 2.5 years and only 1 loose?.
    He removed some garden with a machine to accomodate the extra patio slabs, and has layed the slabs using a five point method.
    Can anyone tell me if the method he used will result in my new slabs all coming loose?
     
  2. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    It shouldn't be coming loose so get the guy back.

    Not sure what the 5 point method is but I hope it doesn't mean there are voids under the slabs, like this:
    http://www.pavingexpert.com/layflag1.htm

    Scroll down to "Spot Bedding"


    If so you'll get more problems in the winter when water underneath freezes and lifts the slabs. Sounds more like it hasn't been laid with a proper base and all this dry weather has dried out the ground underneath causing shrinkage and movement.
     
  3. welsh_

    welsh_ Apprentice Gardener

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    Hi thanks for reply
    I have taken 1 slab up to take pic DSC_0360.JPG
     
  4. Val..

    Val.. Confessed snail lover

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    Oh dear, I do hope you get it sorted OK!!

    Val
     
  5. rustyroots

    rustyroots Total Gardener

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    I agree with JWK and loking at the photo they have been laid with no base. The best way is to use a dry sand and cement mix and and lay on this. I have always laid slabs this way and have never had any trouble. Get the guy back in to sort it out or come next year they will be all over the place.

    Rusty
     
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    • Loofah

      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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      What's under the cement mix? There's clearly some play in the movement (there should be none). By the look of it, they <should> be stable but not if the substrate is non-existent. There's a reason they're layed on a full bed!
      I agree - get him back
       
    • clueless1

      clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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      I hate to say it, but that cement looks like my first ever attempt at mixing cement. It also looks like it hasn't fully dried.

      One dollop of cement for each corner, and one for the middle of the slab, so that the slab is held up on 5 points (4 corners plus middle).

      I read about that technique before I did my patio. The main advantage is that you use less cement, but I didn't like the idea, and it couldn't work for mine anyway because I used irregular shaped broken patio stones. I went for the option of laying a decent foundation of broken bricks/roof tiles and stone chippings, whacked it down as best I could without a whacker (the lad and I had fun jumping up and down all over it over the course of a couple of nights). I then put a layer of cement on, working a bit at a time, and tapped the stones down into position.

      That was a DIY job and its lasted at least 12 months without any sign of movement.
       
    • JWK

      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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      That five dollop method is a bit cowboyish, and because there are only a few contact points with the slab it hasn't made a firm bond. As it says on that link I gave you above:

      The web link then lists all reasons why it's bad but I don't want to worry you unduly, personally I'd ask the contractor back in and see what they suggest to remedy the situation.
       
    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      If there is a really solid and level substrate then the five point method (dabbing) can work. It's still used by some builders if they are laying on an already made surface that you now want higher. By already made, I mean a concrete slab or paved area. An old crazy paving area is a good example.

      With your picture it appears as though he hasn't made any form of solid base, the cement dabs haven't set compactly or solidly enough and they are too deep for the dab method.
      He needs to come back and put down a complete new base on a properly made and compacted sub base.

      Your problem may be that he will ignore you. In which case you will have a couple of ways to go - chase him for the return of your money through the small claims court and/or get Trading Standards in.
       
    • welsh_

      welsh_ Apprentice Gardener

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      Hi thanks for all the feedback.
      Looks like im going to have a problem either way. Think im best off contacting trading standards
       
    • clueless1

      clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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      I'd contact the chap first. Not all tradesmen are dodgy. He might simply have had a bad day, he might have sent his inexperienced junior to do the job, or any number of things. He might be as keen to put it right as you are.

      I have a mate who made himself quite well off with his own landscaping firm. Word got round that they were good. He once told me that occasionally things went wrong, that's life, but that if his customers phoned him to tell him, he'd go straight back round at the earliest chance, usually within a day or two, to put any problems right at his own expense. That way he maintained his excellent reputation, which meant new work kept coming in.
       
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      • welsh_

        welsh_ Apprentice Gardener

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        I have had him back once for the fence, It was really bad, he told me he had never seen this before in 25 years of doing this,however I was a chippy years ago and know he had messed it all up. He did all the work here and had a digger driver in
         
      • Val..

        Val.. Confessed snail lover

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        Good luck welsh, let us know how you get on!!

        Val
         
      • HarryS

        HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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        As shiney said the whole patio needs relaying on a proper base . That is a complete rework so he will not want to do it. Looks like you have a fight on your hands...............
         
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        • Loofah

          Loofah Admin Staff Member

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          Perfect illustration of how & why good customer service is not difficult! All you need is to want to do it.

          Deffo contact builder in the first instance as any legal proceding will require this step anyway
           
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