Recommendations please

At last I now have an area cleared and can start to plan my new greenhouse(previous 1 collapsed after a really heavy fall of snow). I have never actually bought a new 1, either there was 1 at a property we bought or I managed to get my hands on a 2nd hand 1.

I am now getting well past dismantling a greenhouse or taking my life in my hands LITERALLY, perched on a ladder trying to salvage glass out of derelict greenhouses. Gawd when I look back on what I used to do ...completely bonkers!

Having given up the dreaded "pollute sticks", cigarettes, I feel I can treat myself to a new greenhouse and have the luxury of someone to build it for me.

Where the greenhouse is to be sited is out of the way and not really in view so doesn't need to be pretty. I am more interested in good strong construction than whether it has twiddly bits on the roof ridge! I suppose I could go for a poly tunnel but don't have any experience and not sure how well they would stand up to possible heavy snow.

I am reasonably tall so don't want anything where I'm going to feel restricted when digging etc. I intend to use it for all sorts including growing summer veg (tomatoes cucumber etc) growing seedlings, taking cuttings, bringing on the likes of Dahlias. I might well want to heat a portion of it so any idea on that would be great too. With a little expense I could get power to the area, I could at a pinch run an extension cable for the house to the new greenhouse. Oh boy health and safety wouldn't be keen on that if they were involved!!!!! but maybe paraffin heaters are just as good? I do remember having 1 in a greenhouse before and it worked fine.Obviously with no power I am restricted with working in it at night in the winter months. Not quite made up my mind if I really would want to in it then!

Ideally I'd like something about the size of a 2nd hand 1 I had in my previous house which was 9ft x 22ft altho that only had a single door which made it a bit tight getting a wheel barrow in, so probably better to have a double door and a bit wider.

I'd be really grateful for some recommendations or even which not to go for would be helpful. Also can you get good quality wooden ones in this day and age? certainly the joiner I have used to do work in the house is always moaning that it's nigh on impossible to get good seasoned wood, so imagine it would be the same for greenhouses?

Obviously I do have a budget but as this will be the last greenhouse I am likely to ever have I am prepared to spend a bit on it if an extra few £s makes a big difference in quality/ reliability.

The only thing which might break any glass will be me! or maybe the weather so I don't think I need to invest in any other glass than horticultural but am open to suggestions as not up to date on what is available in this day and age.

Here's hoping someone can come up with what would suit best as there are plenty of makes out there and I'm not at all sure which to go for.

Thanks in anticipation.

 

Thanks very much John, I've duly read Kristen's excellent post. Just seen on the net a large Robinsons ex display for sale. Looks really good BUT (funny how there is often a but!) it's in Leicestershire which isn't exactly down the road from Fife in ScotlandWill certainly have a look at Rhino. There are so many makes it's just trying to work out which are the best for the money, I don't want to make a costly mistake, it's not the kind of purchase you make everyday.

 

Skip the Poly Tunnel, If this is your final purchase you don't want something that needs re-covering every few years. A justification for Poly tunnel would be if you want a large area for cropping and the price difference makes glass unaffordable compared to poly tunnel.

Poly tunnel has little heat retention, and the structure is more difficult to divide into two "rooms" (one heated, one not, say)

I have "lowered beds" in mine. I did it for more cropping height for Tomatoes. if your new greenhouse will be on two courses of bricks you could just as easily do 4 courses for a bit more height (but you'll need a ramp to get over the door as the door sill will be 2 courses of bricks higher too)

I have two aluminium framed greenhouse. 10' (wide) x 12' for propagation and 10' x 30' for cropping. A single house with a partition for the "warmer end" for bringing things on early would be the best bet (you gain from having the other half of the greenhouse not as cold as outside, so it means less heat escapes in that direction; my stand-alone propagating house is open on all sides to the weather)

Not sure about as far North as you are, but here I reckon Electricity is the cheapest.

Bottle gas or paraffin you have to light if you think it will be cold enough, so you are still burning fuel on "mild" nights. Gas will run a pilot light, so less wasteful, but paraffin will be very wasteful. Both only work by convection, so plants furthest from the heat will be chilly at times. The thermostat (on Gas) is very crude, so the temperature of the house will overshoot by maybe as much as 10C before it cuts out (or, worse, undershoot by 10C and you have a greenhouse full of dead plants).

With a VERY accurate thermostat (don't pay less than £50) an electric greenhouse fan heater will keep the temperature within 0.5C, and the fan will ensure that the heat is uniform (and if the house is stuffed with plants in the winter the fan will dramatically reduce moulds IME). So although electricity is expensive a well controlled thermostatic system will be on much less and use a lot less "fuel" as a consequence. If its cold up your way, such that you need heat "every night" in winter, then the sums may be different.

Gas and paraffin generate a lot of condensation :( either can go out, and Paraffin can soot-up the whole house if the wick burns unevenly. Electricity is subject to power cuts (I have a backup bottle-gas greenhouse heater)

If you have power to the greenhouse you can also put a fan in there. If you stuff it full of plants in the winter having a fan on a timer 15-mins-on and 15-off dramatically reduces the moulds. Winters before last I had no fan, last winter I did have a fan and even more plants crammed in, and the second winter was absolutely fine whereas the first I had all sorts of problems.

With electricity you could also look at soil warming cables - warm feet can mean that air temperature can be lower, also that cuttings will root faster - and perhaps a Mist propagating bench. I love my mist propagation system, but I wouldn't pay the price for the ones from Two West, for example. I bought the bits and DIY'd it (still several £hundred though :( but it covers an area 4' x 10' under the staging)

You could have a light in there too ...

... but you need an armoured cable supply buried or attached to a wall or similar, and a distribution box (with RCD and Earth stake) in the greenhouse ... and that;s not a tu'penny-ha'penny option I'm afraid.

The cheapest form of heating is insulation If you can have a wall at the North end, for example, or a hedge / wall around it to keep the wind off, that will reduce heating a lot. You can line it with bubble wrap, which will also help. Lean-to greenhouse against an existing South facing wall is even better

I have block-paving floor in the propagation house, and bare soil in the cropping house (much easier to get watering right than growing Tomatoes in pots / Bags IMHO)

Mine are 10' wide. Allowing for a 2ft gangway (its probably more like 18") that is 4' on either side. Its very difficult to reach across 4' of bench to get to the plants at the back ... so 9' sounds fine, and 8' is probably OK. That's not an issue for cropping as you can get "in and amongst" the plants of course ... Bit wider and you can have two aisles with, say, 3' benches - so 3' bench on the left, 18" gangway, 3' bench in the middle, 18" gangway, and 3' bench on the right - that makes 12' wide.

Agree about the door. Both mine have double doors.

Mine slope slightly so that the gutters flow into a water butt at one end (you might want a water butt on either side, by the door, or one at the back).

Get vents every-other-pane on both sides (divide the length of the house [in feet] by 2 for the ideal number of vents, a 20' house should have 8-10 vents). I would also have at least one louvre low down - probably in the back wall - so that you can get convection cooling without having to throw the doors open and get a cold blast (you can still do that in mid summer). Get automatic openers if you will be away during the day (I don't as I prefer to open the vents away from the wind unless I need "everything open" on a hot day)

Not sure how applicable that is. They are usually made from Cedar, which doesn't need treating and doesn't rot, so not sure how much seasoning it needs. If you want one that is painted then that will just be soft wood, presumably?, and seasoning will be important - but you'll have the hassle of maintenance / painting. As you are not bothered by fancy-looks I'd suggest a robust aluminium frame model.

Horticultural glass is fine. You could have Polycarbonate, which would probably insulate a bit better in winter, but will let a bit less light through, and is rather prone to "blowing out" :(

Irrigation? Worth putting water supply into the greenhouse (tap inside less likely to freeze), particularly if you want mist propagation, but handy for a drip irrigation system for Tomatoes etc.

Me too, on all counts!

Mine are Eden and I had the same brand at two previous properties. Robust aluminium frames. I just put "Eden greenhouse" into a search on Google and waited until one came available and then drove and dismantled it and brought it home. Then did that again when the second one came up.! They clearly look like they've been taken down and put back up - some "shut-lines" are not dead straight! but I think I paid £200 for the 10'x12' and £400 for the 10'x30' which is obviously a lot less than a new one

Then there is the Alitex Cliveden - buy a lottery ticket this week perhaps? Loli wants one of those too
http://www.alitex.co.uk/national-trust-greenhouses/the-cliveden.aspx

 

Thank you SO much Kristen for excellent advice, now settled on Aluminum with ordinary glass, thanks to your input. Been having a look at Eden greenhouses and while they are NOT the price you paid for your 2 they aren't that bad either.I take your point about 10ft maybe being too wide something I hadn't thought of so will visit 2 friends who have greenhouses which I don't think are very wide and do a test run to see how I get on. Not sure I can get an Eden big enough which isn't 10 ft wide tho. I would definitely have both hard standing and beds for growing the likes of Tomatoes as like you I'm not very keen on bags/pots unless there isn't an option. Growing Tomatoes in big pots atm, really difficult to get them watered enough and was having to water maybe 3 times a day when it was so hot. Also great advice re electrics, I'll speak to a pal who knows about these things as I'd probably blow myself up if I attempted a DIY job. Used bubble wrap in my previous greenhouse and agree wholeheartedly about getting air circulation right. I well remember botrytis being a problem.Never thought about having a tap inside the greenhouse, now that's smart, thicko me would have put it outside the greenhouse!!!
I'm hoping to get the base done wihin the next month and all being well have the job complete by end October. There is quite a waiting time for certain makes of greenhouses so better make up my mind PDQ if I want it up and doing this year.
However, what was not at all helpful was that flaming link to Alitex...OMG they are beautiful, I want 1 and want 1 NOW!!!!, I can dream

 

I'm happy with 10' ... I have every inch of space used, and that means my staging is 4' wide. You could have a wider aisle and have room to move - unlike my greenhouse

A thought: you could have, say, 3' wide staging (4' space in the middle) and then a temporary / collapsible 2' wide table that you put in there in the spring. Awkward to reach the plants at the back, but only for a couple of months?

10' definitely better for bed-growing of crops than, say, 8'. So you just need to decide what layout you would use in your "propagation bit". Cracking idea to visit some other folk who have a variety of widths ...

Yes, I remember watering mine 2x or 3x a day when I used to grow them in pots. Every other day now

You might need both. Inside is great for connecting to any irrigation systems (otherwise you are trailing a hose in THROUGH the door - which then has to be ajar). Outside is better for a hose that you use outside (if you connect it inside and trail it outside chances are that the hose will "snake" and knock something over inside the greenhouse). Depends if you will have bringing-on space / cold frames / etc. outside & nearby the greenhouse - if not then no point, eh?!!

I have both ... and also a rainwater tap which comes from the rainwater harvesting system. I've never wanted to run the mist irrigation off it as I figure it will get blocked ... but there again all the plants are coated in white from the hardness of the water here, and I expect they would prefer a soft-rainwater mist ...

I'm upset you didn't like that, I thought it was my best work

Don't forget to buy the lottery ticket

 

I have an 8 x 6 Halls greenhouse Silu. It's now six years old and I haven't had any issues with it. I did decide to go for toughened glass though, even though it's in a fairly sheltered position horticultural glass wouldn't have lasted long here with the force 8 plus winds in the winter months.

I wouldn't touch B & Q's greenhouses I've heard of to many issues with them, including lack of a availability on spare parts.

 

Wondering if anybody has personal knowledge of the Elite GX or Elite Titan. Think I have narrowed it down to these 2 as they seem to fit the bill quite well and aren't hellishly expensive. The Titan works out to be £300 more than the GX for the same size but is meant to be that bit stronger. Where I live isn't that exposed but isn't a gentle climate either, "what price peace of mind" and all that IF the Titan is really that much stronger or maybe it's just advertising blurb!? Any info would be good thanks.

 

I like the double roof vent on the GX. All I can see that is different is that the Titan has the stronger core-vect glazing bars all over (I think?) whereas the GX only has them on the ends (which might be enough?) and the Titan has additional structural members at the corners etc. I would want the structure to be strong enough to support a cropping wire for Toms (mine is just hung from the roof and I've never had a problem, but I would pay extra not to have to try to support the Toms stand-alone )

Note that they sell cantilevers separately (to use on either Ridge or Eaves), so you could add those to a GX to strength it - might be an option compared to paying for extra strong glazing bars of Titan

I use these key-ring bolts to support my cropping wires:


I would want 2 vents, one each side, staggered, (or one double-vent I suppose) per 6.5' run. If you are going to have automatic openers then you might need only half as many if you have double vents? (although the vents will be heavier so you may need stronger vent openers, probably cheaper than buying twice as many regular ones though) [Titan has Elite openers, GX has Bayliss Mk7 which I suspect are more powerful / expensive]

I would think you only need one louvre? (somewhat regardless of length). Seems to be "standard" which may mean "one per 6.5' run length" ?

I reckon the "bar capping" will stop the glazing clips flying off. Doesn't happen often here, but they do sometimes come off, and the ones up the top of the roof are very hard to get to to put back! Good idea that

Drop-door option - if you wanted to put the greenhouse on several courses of bricks to raise it up.

Rainwater kit to join the gutters - seems like a good idea if you want water butt at the back, and don't want two butts.


Shelves for the back end wall?

Staging? I see they have cantilevered staging which looks quite clever. Max width 26" which in an 8'6" house would give you a 4' aisle - I'd hate wasting that much space!

Do they have an internal dividing wall option?

Not going to treat yourself to some crestings and finnials then?

 

1. Great advice and plenty to mull over Kristen, thank you very much for bothering,I know how vital it is to have good ventilation so will do my sums on how many vents /louvres extra to standard I might need, cost will be offset against NOT having finials (cheek!!! ) I also will not be ordering concrete Doves or Gnomes, this will be a working greenhouse not something which looks pretty. Bit like my Discovery which actually has mud underneath her and is occasionally driven off road doing what she was designed to do unlike the Chelsea "tractor" brigade.

 

What a cracking justification

 

Very near to ordering my new greenhouse. The site is now cleared and prepared and the remaining part of a huge Ash tree (part got knocked down when a huge Beech came down in a gale) has been felled. It wasn't, understandably looking very well and could have damaged lots of things if left to fall down by itself. Got electricity to the site (not cheap!), jeees armored cabling is expensive, I'd have sited the greenhouse closer to a power supply if I'd known how much the cabling cost per meter!!!!
I am having the greenhouse built for me this time as getting somewhat passed it!The greenhouse builder I have spoken to is VERY keen that I should use safety glass. Is this for his benefit or will it really make the greenhouse stronger? which is how he is selling the idea to me. Because the greenhouse is going to be quite big, using safety glass increases the price by about £800!!! a lot in other words. I was wondering if a compromise of toughened in the areas at risk of me breaking (sides) and use ordinary horticultural for the roof which would be unlikely to get damaged....bad idea? Is there any reason why I can't mix the 2 types of glass?

 

Unless the frame is feeble / cheap I can't see how safety glass would help. I would suggest you ask the manufacturer for their opinion?

The roof is at risk from you using a hoe, or some other straight handled tool, and catching the roof glass on an up-stroke! But you've had greenhouses before so probably weaned off that!

In the absence of kids kicking footballs, or rotary mowers slinging stones sideways, I don't see the point of anything other than cheapest Horticultural glass.

 

If only you knew!!! I did manage to smash a pane in the roof on the "up -stoke" when vigorously trying to get a cane to penetrate rock hard soil in the last greenhouse a few years ago. After being showered with glass it's funny how I haven't repeated the same mistake!

Thank you very much for your input Kristen, right that's me sorted, if the builder doesn't want to build the greenhouse with ordinary glass then I'll just have to find someone else or alternatively I'll get him to put up the frame and do the glazing myself, it really isn't that big a deal to put in the glass.

All being well I should have a new "toy" by the end of October. It won't be pretty but really looking forward to having a greenhouse again.