Reeds puncturing Butyl liner

I have a large (25ft) pond , butyl lined, put in about 15 years ago, but the liner is basically in good nick.

Somehow wild reeds have found there way in to it.. the thick roots have got under the liner and are growing up through it, puncturing the butyl in about 20 places along one side.

Any Ideas how to get rid of it!

Completely replacing the liner would be a huge landscaping job.. and we'd still need to make 100% sure all the reeds were got rid of.

Lifting the liner along that side and digging out the roots would still be a big job, but possible, but not easy!

Cutting a slit through to get tho dig out the roots could be possible.

Weedkilling the reeds might be an option.. but what would you use.. the water is part of a system that also feeds the irrigation system for the garden. and feeds into a natural stream

How would you then repare the butyl, 20 holes along a 10 ft section. and how long to wait until we know all the roots were gone.

Any ideas, thoughts or comments most welcome.. Thanks!

 

That's disasterous.

Are they reeds or bulrushes?

I'm certainly no expert but the only thing I could think of at the mo' is to place sheets of aluminium underneath the butyl after you've removed what you can see of the reeds. Because I'd imagine it'll be a certainty that more reeds will come up.

 

Reeds ..I know my phragmitis!

 

hi Quercus, sorry but you will not like this.

You will have to empty the whole pond, pull back the liner from the affected side, cutting the reeds off behind the liner as you go, leaving the reeds poking through the liner. (There is a reason.)

Now the liner is out of the way, you can now dig out the reeds, you will have to dig them out as any bits left may puncture the liner when you put it back.
Once they are dug out you can try a weed killer, but you can't let any get in the pond.

Now the liner has "designer reed stubble" you can pull these bits out one at a time and mark the area, or you can thoroughly clean the area.
Once all the reed stubble is out you can then "glue" butyl patches over the holes with a pond repair kit.

I have used odd scraps of liner and genuine silicone sealant before now, it does work, but all the area must be 100% clean. If you do this you must have a thin layer of silicone and press down very hard. Leave for 12 -24 hours to dry, but again I have done it and put it back after 20 mins on a hot day.
Yes you will end up with lots of small patches, but its better than a new liner (Unless it is that bad)

You can't really slit the liner and work through a hole, unless you do that for a day job (Key hole surgeon?) as it will prove to be very restrictive, and then you have a huge split and lots of holes to fix.

A sheet of almost anything behind the liner will cause more grief than its worth, as it will rot, and is curing the problem, not removing the cause. (And plants being plants will grow round it given time)

Save as much water as you can

Good luck.

 

I'd go further, I'd lay a 2" screed of concrete below the liner to be certain, as if any reed roots are missed you'll have the same problem again. Repairing liners is a bit hit and miss. Depending on how bad it is you might need a new liner.
A very distressing situation for you.

 

I'm just thinking out loud.

But how much longer do you expect the liner to last?

Mine is 21yrs this year and I'm thinking it may be coming to the end of its life, a few brittle patches have started to occur around the top edge.

 

I'm worrying about mine, it's 25 years old, but touch wood it's still OK.
It'd be a pain to replace as my koi pool is edged with big rocks which are cemented over the edge of the liner. Doesn't bear thinking about.

 

I'm trying to avoid replacing the whole liner, the rest looks fine with rears of life left ( It was a high quality liner when it was first domne., it would be expensive to replace, and would be a huge task relandsacaping that whole section of the garden,.

Could I cut out that section and replace the damaged area... and get to the roots underneath that way!.. Is it easier to put in new big patches than lots of little ones.

 

The problem is whether you'd be able to remove all the roots.
Maybe I'm not understanding this properly, where have they come from in the first place? Were they dormant before you dug out the pool? Are there more that are likely to come up in another area?
Re-sealing the liner across a large area might be difficult, even a small leak unsealed, will lose a lot of water. The weight of water has a very searching action and will find any point where the adhesive is weak.

 

i'm not sure where the reeds came from... seed on duck's feet perhaps!

what seems to have happened is they were above the liner... but somehow broken through.. then the rhysomes have spread under the liner, sprouted and broken through (I'll post pics in next post.)

I need to kill off the reeds.. I thought carefully painting on a glyphosate, wallpaper paste mix... making sure it doesn't slip off into the water, and reapplying until I'm certain it's all gone.

I think that the only way is then to drain the whole thing.. clean it out.. and reline the whole thing with a new liner (Leaving the old in place... any comments!)

I now learn it's been there for abpout 20 years.. so probably reaching the end of it's life anyway.

 

Does this help!

You can feel new shoots under the liner trying to break though!

 

I think in that situation I would change the liner. The work involved in trying to clear all traces of the reeds under the liner in any other way looks as if it'd be the same as "keyhole surgery with your eyes shut."

It's a shame and I'm being wise after the event, but with any water plants and marginals it's always best to keep them in containers and move 'em around every so often, so that they are not always sitting on the same bit of the liner.
I'm a firm believer in having a concrete screed as a base, with some insulation between that and the liner. This would prevent any reoccurance.

I can tell you some real horror stories about problem pools from my experiences talking to other koi keepers.


Digressing..


I'll relate a funny story.



A member of the koi society to which I belonged wrote a piece in the magazine about his experiences.

He went to the doctors as he was feeling unwell.

After an examination the doctor concluded that he was suffering from stress.

"What do you do for a living?"

"I'm a barrister, I deal with a lot of litigation."

"That must be stressful."

"No not really, I've been doing it for years."

"What else do you do?"

"Well, I started on this new hobby a few years ago.."

He then related his experiences building his pool and the various problems he'd had over time with his pool and his fish.

"Well, there's your problem, it's the koi and the pool, get rid of them!"

"I can't do that!"

"Why not?"

"They help me to relax!"

 

Oh dear ... reading this has made me quite glad that my pond is not much more than a small puddle. Even so, it's amazing how quickly some of the plants have started to escape from their pots and put roots down elsewhere. You have to be on their case all the time. I'm having a clear-out at the moment and hoping I don't discover any problems with the liner. If I do, I think my pond may have to become a bog garden.

 

Quercus, as I said, you cant cut a slit in the liner, or even a hole to work through, as the liner will restrict what you are trying to do. Even if you could you cant easily join a new piece of liner on unless its welded (You can have butyl welded) because there is nothing much for it to hang on to, a patch covers the hole area and has 4 sides to grip to, a strip doesn’t, and the bigger the repair the harder it is to do and the more likely it is to leak.

You will have to dig the reeds out, anything else is not 100% and may contaminate the pond.

I have to ask, did the reeds just pop up over night?

 

Looks like you'll have to bite the bullet and do a new pond.

Would you consider using concrete instead of liner in a new pond?

I have a concrete pond and all the plants are in plastic containers so that I can move them around. (Or get rid of them easily if I don't like them.)