Swapping paving stones for turf / horsetail issue

Discussion in 'Lawns' started by LennyAtom, Jun 4, 2009.

  1. LennyAtom

    LennyAtom Apprentice Gardener

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    Hi there,
    As this is my first post and I'm embarking on my first major gardening project, I figured I'd better post here.

    Our back garden is covered entirely with (guestimate) 1ft square paving stones, aside from some poor-quality exposed soil in rather large borders.
    Apart from a seating area at the rear and a path, we want to remove the paving stones soon and put some decent turf down.

    We planned to lift the paving stones and have the garden rotavated (or hire a tool and DIY it), making the borders smaller and then laying the turf. Before we can go ahead with that though, there are various weeds to eradicate. Forgive my lack of knowledge in this regard, but there are some dandelions, some moss, some spiky things, some stuff that sticks to your trouser legs, some stuff that spreads along the ground and goes brown and brittle in winter etc!
    Most of the weeds are round the borders, and we've been managing them pretty well.

    However, between some of the paving stones there are also what I think are some type of horsetail. They're fern-like, break off very easily making it hard to get the roots out and they re-grow pretty darn quick. I've seen horsetail described as having a brown stage with pods in spring time, and a sterile green stage in summer. In 4 years, I've only ever seen a green stage.

    Anyway, I lifted a few paving stones a while back and found they had very dark brown roots snaking along for significant distances in the sand that was laid beneath the stones. Some of the roots seemed rather damp and dead, some didn't. Next thing you know, new ones have popped up 10 feet away from the originals.

    So.... I need some general advice encompassing the following points, if possible:

    1) Getting rid of horsetail
    2) Should I pull up all the paving stones, and remove what roots I can by hand first?
    3) If I were to use weedkiller (or some other method), how long between doing that, and rotavating and then how long before laying turf?
    4) If we got someone in to do the rotavating and turf laying, how much can I expect to spend on approx 50 square metres of garden?
    5) As the soil beneath the paving stones probably hasn't been exposed for 10+ years, what can I expect the soil quality to be like? i.e. will we need to treat it before laying the turf in?
    6) Is the horsetail stuff likely to come back in years to come and pop it's heads through the turf?

    Sorry to babble on in my first post.
    Any input is appreciated!

    ==Lenny==
     
  2. Kristen

    Kristen Under gardener

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    "Getting rid of horsetail"

    1) Its probably the most difficult weed to get rid of. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Round-up that kills most things is very ineffective. Bruising the plant and immediately applying Round-up may have some effect.

    Pulling up, whenever you see it, with a little bit of root (straight into a supermarket bag, and then the dustbin - don't drop anything!) will weaken it over time.

    2) Yes, sounds like a good plan

    3) Roundup, or other Glyphosate based herbicides, need 6 hours guaranteed dry after application, then about 2 weeks before everything dies (it needs time to get down tinto the roots and kill them). Then you can rotavate / plant. However, you may want to make a second applciation on anything you missed the first time (so another 2 weeks elapsed ...). You could also look at Resolva which will turn the plants yellow overnight, as well as letting the Glyphosate penetrate the roots to kill them (I expect you still have to wait two weeks before rotavating)

    Glyphosate needs to be applied to actively growing plants - so do not cut them down first!

    4) Don't know, hopefully Pro Gard will be along in a moment ...

    5) Provided the soild isn't full of builders rubble, or concrte, the fact that its been covered shouldn;t matter too much. As ever, though, mixing in lots of manure, or other soil improver, where you will amke the flower beds will definitely help.

    6) Depends on the quality of your lawn. I think in a fairly fine grass lawn it can't hack it - I have some horses tails here, and its doesn't make it into the lawn. But I have a find grass lawn that I cut every week, sometimes more often, with a good quality cylinder mower - that may help - but you will only get a nice looking lawn with regular cutting, whatever type of mower you use.
     
  3. NatalieB

    NatalieB Gardener

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    If you are going to rotovate it you will want to kill off or pull up as much of it as you can. If you rotovate with the weeds still in situ, you will simply cut up the roots which will germinate into many many more weeds. Good luck in your project.
     
  4. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    I agree with Natalie, if you rotovate you will chop up the horsetail roots and end up with even more. Its very difficult to get an effective spray because of the waxy surface of the plant, I've heard of people putting poly bags of roundup over the horsetails. But I think its going to be a tough battle. Personally I'd try digging up as the plant and visible roots as possible, then just keep hoeing it to try and weaken the stuff. Trouble is the roots go very deep so you'll never get them all out. If it comes up within the lawn, thats not so much of a problem, you can just keep mowing it.
     
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