The flood defences "did not fail"

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Jan 6, 2016.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    And so the back-covering begins...

    BBC News Article

    So, if they didn't fail, surely that means that they were not built to a specification that was fit for purpose? And therefore that means that the governing bodies who specified and paid for the things failed?
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      Still say you will never defend against the amount of rain that fell during that period.
      Would flood defences have saved washed away bridges?

      The fact that nobody has ever seen rain like that in the UK before tells me there is nothing you can do about such events.

      And to those that say it is down to the North/South split I'b be inclined to point out that we have had some heavy rain around here in the last few days, but nothing on the scale of the rainfall that occurred in those areas, unyet there are flood warnings, so if we had the same rainfall, the same thing would have happened.
       
    • HarryS

      HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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      I live about 4 miles from the Lancashire village of Croston that was hit hard with flooding over Christmas. Xmas day and boxing day it never stopped raining very hard , this is after 6 weeks of heavy rain. The level of rain we had was way off the charts. So maybe we need new charts ? The once in a 100 year weather conditions are happening every three or four years now.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        Maybe not defences on their own, but surely it is now abundantly clear that something is fundamentally wrong with the whole government/DEFRA strategy? I understand that the weather was extreme, but it is not the first time that it has been extreme - furthermore, have we not had loads of people in the know banging on for years that climate change is going to make events commonplace?

        The real insult will come when there is a hosepipe ban later on this year........
         
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        • capney

          capney Head Gardener

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          I am in York outskirts. Believe me I was watching the situation with the river Foss very closely as we were in the 'Be aware' area. Thankful that the water never reached us. There are lot of questions need answering as to the actions of the EA re the Foss barrier. The flak has already started to fly.
           
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          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            Yep, and give us two weeks without rain and there will be the usual cries of, "things are looking a bit dry, could do with a shower".:snork:
             
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            • Phil A

              Phil A Guest

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              We're Marrooned, Marroooned....


               
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              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                There is always a solution to a problem, Pete. We can't just shrug our shoulders and say it's "unprecedented".........we have to the Government for that.!!! No one has listened to the Scientists who've been warning about more wet and violent weather, the Government has denied cutting back on flood prevention but in fact the National Audit Office has pointed out the the Government has cut back by 6%, which in real terms equates to 10%.
                The Somerset floods were partially caused by cut backs over the years and consequently lack of dredging yet, again, the Government failed to listen to local experts advice because it was far from the Mandarins of London who were only interested in cutting back yet again.
                 
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                • longk

                  longk Total Gardener

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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    Sorry @ARMANDII but I cant really agree.
                    Its the old story, lets find someone to blame, there are limits to what humans can do, and there will always be cash restraints on any projects that are undertaken.

                    You cant plan for 600mm of rain in a couple of days, it floods in most countries around the world when that kind of thing happens.

                    I'm assuming the geography of the areas also plays a part, as unlike the Somerset floods, which hung around for months, these tend to subside comparatively fast.

                    I think I said in an earlier post.
                    How high do you build the walls, and will that be acceptable to everyday life.

                    And when you do build your walls, who do you flood down stream?
                     
                  • ARMANDII

                    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                    It's not about blame, Pete, we can leave that to the arguing political parties who point the finger at every one but themselves.

                    You can if you know it's coming and that it will happen in the future. We have to look at the problem area, listen to the local experts and those people who believe they have an answer to the problem. We know that more high rainfalls will happen, probably even more than has happened, in the future and we cannot just say "Oh, well, that's Life". We're still building on flood plains despite the Government saying it has stopped planning for it, so there's a lot of double talk going on with Politicians mouthing words of sincere regret and promising more action and more investment in flood defences when, in fact, the opposite is happening.

                    If you talk to the people who have been flooded repeatedly, lost their livelihood, can't get insurance, who know that the Government has been cutting back on flood defences, that the present defences were computer modeled on "estimates" over 20 years old and were influenced and weakened even further by the reluctance of Governments to spend the appropriate amount of money...........then the answer is, Yes, build the walls higher, make sure that pumps won't fail, that ideas of diverting and handling flood waters are listened to.

                    If you plan properly and listen to the local people who have the knowledge and expertise then probably nobody.

                    I listened to, and watched, today the Parliamentary inquiry into the floods and flood defences that have happened. One of the £300,000 salaried Directors of the Environmental Agency defended himself by saying that the Agency was in the business of "lowering risk" than actually planning for or looking for methods of flood prevention..........which, to me, is pathetic and band aid plaster thinking. There is expert and scientific thinking out there that believes we have to not only acknowledge that even more higher rainfall will occur but that we can take steps to alleviate the problem............but it will take radical thinking and the spending of real money and not the promised mist like "money" that the Government is saying they are spending.:dunno::coffee:
                     
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                    • "M"

                      "M" Total Gardener

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                      That is unlikely to happen.
                      Why? Well, one of the factors contributing to the levels of flooding (and I repeat: a contributing factor) will be that the aquifers are satiated/saturated - hence why the continued rainfalls are having such a dramatic effect on those floodplains where man decided to build (plus those lands where the rivers were not habitually dredged; yada-yada-yada)!

                      The real questions aren't about what we didn't do before but should be focussed on what, in light of historic events, future predications and COMMON SENSE, we should now be doing for a) damage limitation and b) ecological management for the future (bearing in mind the extremes of both flooding and drought and the effects on both humans and natural wildlife)

                      Tall order methinks. :dunno:
                       
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                      • intel

                        intel Gardener

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                        • Gay Gardener

                          Gay Gardener Total Gardener

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                          From a BBC interview I think ... :scratch:

                          truss.jpg
                           
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                          • capney

                            capney Head Gardener

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