The Junior Doctors Dispute

Any thoughts on the subject?????
Personally, as with most of these arguments, I can see to some extent both sides.

The NHS should be a 24 hr 7 day week set up, should have been years ago.
People work in all kinds of jobs that involve weekend work, and as long as its done on a sensible rota I cant see where there should be a problem.

One thing I do think is this should not be only about junior doctors, the consultants should be working a 7 day week rota as well.
Lets face it, people get ill at all times of the day and week and there should be full cover.
I had a few days in hospital a couple of years ago and it was said, get out by Friday, if you dont you will be in until Monday at least, as there are no doctors to sign you out over the weekend.
Stupid state of affairs, when you consider its the doctors themselves who moan about not enough beds.

Not sure what the government intends to "impose" on the junior doctors, but they say its not safe, for us?
But if they get paid overtime for Saturdays,....... it will?

Maybe I read it wrong?
I dont think anyone should have to work ridiculous hours, and if thats what the government are intending, it is wrong.

However, if its just a quibble over overtime payments I'll not be honking my horn outside the local hospital.

 

Hi @pete

I totally agree with you...

I have to work weekends, most bank holidays....morning shifts and late shifts etc. etc. and on rota. Early shifts ... up at 4am and late shift till after midnight.. its part of the job and what I get paid to do... sometimes its a normal 9 hour shift and on many occasions it can be over 12/14 hour shift.... that's the job I signed up for.... However, If I need a special day/weekend off I put it down as a request and the rota is worked around it.

My view is... if you don't like it.... get out ....and find something else to do... a Monday - Friday job 9-5 with 'less' pay. We can't ask people to fall ill on timescales! To have people in beds over the weekend as they can't be signed out to go home... is ridiculous... and I have witnessed this..... I've seen extremely ill patients being treated in corridors because there are no free beds.... all because Doctors/Consultants don't want to work the weekends on rota.... its sad isn't it!!

I don't understand why they think they are so different from everyone else! Over the weekend and bank holidays I bet they go shopping/eating/drinking and expect the shops/restaurants/pubs to be open... so why can't we expect the hospitals to be open over the weekends and bank holidays to send patients home to their loved one's?

Sorry rant over...

 

Wanted to hit 'Informative' and 'agree' and 'like' there @Apple Blossom

 

There was a good but brief analysis of what had been offered on the radio recently. I can't remember any of the details, beyond that Saturday will no longer be time and a half by default, but still will be if they've worked more than so many hours that week already.

What they've been offered sounds fair enough to me except for one point that so many people overlook, and that is basically the pressure that doctors face.

For most of us, if we make a mistake at work, typically worst case is someone gets sacked. They then have to find another job, possibly the exact same role in a different company. A doctor makes a mistake and worst case, innocent people, possibly people's kids, die. And careers die at the same time. That's a lot of pressure. You'd think when people are willing to put themselves under such pressure for the benefit of all of us, you'd think the government would support them by at least continuing reasonable discussion until some agreement can be reached.

 

Oh Apple Blossom, I think I love you....
I've been purposely staying away from this thread as I don't want any more red x's on my profile.

I worked for over 20 years in the licensed trade, and a Saturday or Sunday is a normal working day if you're rostaed on.

They have been offered a 13% pay rise, a day off in the week in lieu of a weekend day and overtime after 9pm.

I just hope that these people don't use pubs/restaurants/shops etc on weekends and bank holidays.

 

Over here we are starting to turn that corner. Diagnostic equipment such as MRI , Xray etc are being used 7 days a week not just M-F or for emergencies. I had several discussions with Doctors weekend before last when i was at the hospital watching over a friend. No evening chats after the initial emergency period.

At least using the expensive equipment for longer hours might be helping backlogs.

We don't need Doctors working longer hours, we need more Doctors and yes, with rotational work. our stupid province puts a limit on how many new doctors get licensed each year. That kills any competition or willingness to compromise.

Just my umble opinion....

 

Sorry .... but I Disagree....Quote:- For most of us, if we make a mistake at work, typically worst case is someone gets sacked. They then have to find another job, possibly the exact same role in a different company. A doctor makes a mistake and worst case, innocent people, possibly people's kids, die. And careers die at the same time.

Examples:-

Architect.... designs a building.... Construction.. build the building... it all falls down... people and children die. No sacking, no other job in the same role in a different company, career dies...and they go to straight to jail if negligence is proven .... same as doctors/consultants

Police Officer.... faces utter danger in this current society... pulls the trigger and shoots an innocent by stander.... no job after that... but a jail sentence and career finished and labelled a murderer!

Electricial/Gas Engineer...makes a fitting mistake... electrocutes/blows up clients and their children.... they go jail and never work again in the same industry if at all get another job due to negligence.

In skilled jobs there is always a risk, that's why we choose to go to University and do the jobs we do....but we take the higher cut in wages and that carries responsibilities..

@Anthony Rogers I'll risk the red x's on my profile because if we are all to be honest with each other..... there are lots of jobs out there that carry as much responsibilities, weight and danger that we don't hear about.... most of us who work have to work weekend and bank holidays with or without overtime payments for the pleasure of others, I just don't understand why junior doctors/Consultants think they are so different.... but that's just my opinion...

 

I havent paid much interest to it but refusing to treat emergencies during their next strike is shameful imho. Lost my support right there,so if they want to ****** off to Australia to work instead then cheerio.

 

I agree with the under resourced staff issue but I disagree with the comment...

nor do they work such long hours...or if they do then they do receive overtime payments unless they are on a fixed salary

Anyway.... back to the subject.... this is just my personal opinion ...

I think that the junior doctors and consultants who work in the A&E and high dependency wards are stretched beyond their resources, the decisions they have to make are life and death... they work long hours and the resources are short and the government should invest and pay respectively. I totally agree with @WeeTam going on strike to make a statement is one thing but not treating emergencies is another!

I disagree with ward junior doctors, as in my personal opinion its a total disgrace and I would suggest to anyone reading this to go and spend 3 months or more like I have on a ward and watch day to day activities, its disgraceful and embarrassing.

I don't very often jump on my soap box ... but to be honest... I've had a belly full over the last 3 months . A&E and high dependancy I support totally .... the rest need to get grip!

 

Just home after a 17.5 hour shift... no extra pay... no time in lieu .... and having just looked up how much a junior doctor is paid.... well... I'll say nothing! Tomorrow is my day off.... however, I have to follow up on paperwork for an incident today! so no real day off and no pay!

 

Hi Apple Blossom,

Just to clarify, I'm not liking that you've done 17.5 hrs with no overtime or owt, I'm liking that you've actually made the point that ( in my opinion ) junior doctors have no right to strike and are all just money grabbing selfish people.

 

We all have the right to take legal industrial action if we feel it necessary. We all also have the right to choose our career path, even if the chosen career happens to pay well. Doctors are not slaves. We don't own them. Sure we own the nhs, and should expect the nhs to serve us, but we don't own the people that staff it. If the staff feel compelled to down tools, the management (the government on our behalf) have a duty to ensure continuity of service by whatever means. It looks to me very much like they are consistently failing.

In any other situation, if the staff were unhappy, it would be right to judge the management. This is no different.

 

Yeah Clueless, they chose that career path and they knew what they were choosing.

Lets just hope that no-one we know, any family or friends needs a&e or emergency care next week when they are refusing to work.

I have greater admiration of ethics for the fire brigade, who, even when on strike WILL turn out for emergencies.