The megalomaniacs in Brussels are at it again...

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by merleworld, Sep 26, 2014.

  1. merleworld

    merleworld Total Gardener

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  2. Lolimac

    Lolimac Guest

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    :doh:....Blimey they are busy 'B' s aren't they:rolleyespink:

    I think it'll take more than a few lawn mowers to put this world right...:rolleyespink:
     
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    • wiseowl

      wiseowl Amiable Admin Staff Member

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      When they make Astroturf compulsory:heehee:
       
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      • Loofah

        Loofah Admin Staff Member

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        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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          So, are they going to come to Shineyland to check up on my machinery? And I'm going to just let them walk into my place and do it?



          :lunapic 130165696578242 5: :lunapic 130165696578242 5: :lunapic 130165696578242 5:

          They might create problems for mower manufacturers but my mower has lasted 20 years and it has a good 20 or 30 years left in it. If they do bring in some sort of control over service engineers then I know lots of people who will service my mower for cash. :blue thumb:

          Maybe local colleges can start evening classes in garden machinery repairs. :)
           
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          • Loofah

            Loofah Admin Staff Member

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            The correct way to informally deal with intemperate citizens, as shown by the master, Mr John Wayne:)
             
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            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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              I think I might be ill, because I find myself actually agreeing with the EU on this one.

              I doubt it will affect older mowers, more likely just as with cars, there will be new emissions rules for new ones. That seems fair enough, because we know that the engineers can achieve very clever things but are held back by the bean counters. With the exception of engines that need to be small and light but still powerful, I can't see any need for the inefficient 2 stroke engine any more.

              It wont ruin anyone's lives. They got their hands on off road motorsports a few years ago, forcing a switch from 2 stroke engines to mostly 4 stroke in motorcross bikes. When I was a kid, beyond junior level, there were two main classes in the motorcross races. 250cc and 500cc. Simple as that. They were all two stroke, and they all stunk (not complaining, I loved it, but they stunk). Now they're mostly on 250cc and 450cc 4 stroke and they stink less. They still deliver the same power output now though, and those bike tear round (and through) the track like missiles.
               
            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              Is it actually possible to make something like a four stroke chain saw, or hedge trimmer?
              I thought most mowers were already four stroke.
               
            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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              I doubt it. That's why I put in the caveat, "With the exception of engines that need to be small and light but still powerful".

              There's still a lot that can be done to a two stroke engine though to improve its efficiency. Even back in the 1980s a common 'mod' (and sometimes fitted as standard on the more expensive bikes) was the addition of a reed valve between the carburettor and the inlet port to eliminate the escape of exhaust gases back through the inlet side. Its such a simple component, for someone with geared up for mass production it would add pence to the cost of the engine, but maybe its because my dad's petrol garden tools are a bit old (less than 10 years old so no excuse), but they don't have such simple additions. I know, because I'm the mug that gets to fix them when they break down. They still have carburettors too. I guess that's cheaper than adding a pump and a fuel injector and a couple sensors. Of course adding fuel injection might be impractical on a very small and light engine, but electronic ignition timing would be a simple addition, than it is sadly lacking in many cases.

              The point is, the 2 stroke engine is an inefficient design that should be replace where its practical to do so, but where 2 stroke is the only practical way to go, there are still lots of opportunities for improvement, but most of these things come down to cost. Small cost in many cases, but cost nonetheless, and so the bean counters, keen to make their product £5 cheaper than their rival's, will cut that cost.
               
            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              I'm afraid the bean counters are on the consumers side, so you will never beat that one until you push the price out of the reach of the ordinary person.

              But I'm not sure this is actually aimed at joe bloggs, more likely professional users?
               
            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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              If I half decent DIY'er can improve the efficiency of a 2 stroke engine for around a tenner, a skilled engineer backed by a full time of designers, technicians, and the fully equipped factory can do a much better job for pence.

              By not doing these things, they are not on the side of the consumer. If these extra features add £10 onto the retail cost of the unit, they only have to save you about 8 litres of fuel over the life of the product to make it worthwhile. When I borrow my dad's chainsaw, I get through easily 8 litres of fuel over a couple of days.
               
            • shiney

              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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              My mower is 20 years old and is four stroke. :blue thumb:
               
            • Val..

              Val.. Confessed snail lover

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              OK well I just don't get it, all this cutting back on emissions in the EU but how is this helping on a Worldwide "save the planet" scale?? America aren't cutting back neither Japan I can't help wondering sometimes what the point is!! :dunno:
               
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                Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                You can bet there is another angle, the EU make money from us buying new, so it makes sence to make the old stuff obsolete.
                I only changed my old motor because it was costing me nearly £500 a year in road tax, due to emissions, I still liked the car, but it was getting older, and they force you into things you would not normally do.

                I think until China decides to cut its emissions we are just peeing into the wind.
                 
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                • clueless1

                  clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                  That will never happen as long as we continue to let them make everything for us.

                  Its funny in the 'west'. We have a go at cleaning up our act, and monitor the pollution created by every nation and make a sort of league table. We get rid of all our heavy industry and send it to China and India, and then point the finger at China and India and cry that there's no point us doing anything because we're squeaky clean compared to them.
                   
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