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Wall Sound Insulation

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by ricky101, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. ricky101

    ricky101 Super Gardener

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    Hi,

    Just wondered if anyone had done sound insulation, typically to an existing party wall ?

    While we are aware of various methods, most do need several inches to be effective, but there are some thinner methods which use a rubber based isolation sheet, eg M20 as below, followed by two sheets of acoustic plasterboard.

    Its this latter method that has interested us, though several companies supply the M20 sheets we still have not been able to find any first hand accounts of using it, short of the companies own web site reviews, which could be biased.

    thanks

    000998.jpg
     
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    • JWK

      JWK Gardener

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      I have no experience but my gut feeling is an air gap is needed as well as that heavy rubber isolation sheet.
       
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      • ricky101

        ricky101 Super Gardener

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        Hi,

        Our party wall is actually twin breeze block with cavity, though from what I've been told an air gap can be a problem in letting the sounds through.

        They say our existing dot and dab plasterboard should be removed as the sound gets into the air gaps between the dots and resonates on the plasterboard.

        A bit out of our elements here, hence asking for first hand info from anyone who has used this or similar methods with success.
         
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        • martin-f

          martin-f Plant Hardiness Zone 8b

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          They telling you the most expensive way ricky stud the wall out fill the gap with appropriate sound proofing and if the noise is quite bad use sound proof plaster boards as well,

          A joiner could do a big room/two small rooms in less than a day including boarding and soundproofing, then get a plasterer in for a day.
           
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          • ricky101

            ricky101 Super Gardener

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            Hi,

            The room is quiet narrow so loosing another 75 -100mm is not an option we really want to follow, hence that M20 method with 2 layers of soundblock plasterboard seemed attractive with it only taking about 20mm extra space if we removed the existing dot and dab plasterboard.

            The biggest draw back is that those M20 panels are 1mtr sq but cost anything from £30 upward, seems a big price for recycled old tyres !

            A friend suggested using those Resiliant bars, fastening then directly to the wall ? rather than a stud frame, and then using two soundblock plasterboards, but wondered if they would aid the noise transmission as thought the whole process was to have an isolated floating wall ..?
             
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            • martin-f

              martin-f Plant Hardiness Zone 8b

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              Hi ricky ive only done it in the way ive described so i cant advice you any further, loosing 72/100mm was never a issue on the few jobs ive done, saved the customers a few £ and a lot of mess.
               
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              • ricky101

                ricky101 Super Gardener

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                Hi Martin,

                Appreciate that a separate stud wall is the easiest and probably most effective way in reducing any noise, but our lounge is relatively long and narrow so loosing 100mm is something we want to avoid, it could also make the bay window and other things a little off center if you know what we mean.

                We will also be taking out the old gas fire as its so old we cannot get any parts for it and cannot install a new gas one as the 'chimney' is precast concrete built into the wall and seems you can no long use that 1980s type of flue for a new fire, even if we did 'illegally' get one installed, it would still be a problem when the house is sold.

                One thing we did look at today was the plaster around the chimney was very cracked/brittle and it soon fell away when we stripped the wallpaper revealing the 450x225mm wall blocks.

                So we removed one , easy enough, ( neighbours out for the day ) partly to see the fire flue from the rear and if that was actually bridging the other side of the party wall and then we wondered why not fill the 100mm cavity with some of the Rockwool Sound panels ?

                We could easily reach in and cover 1.5+ sq mtrs for each block we removed and replaced in turn , a long job placing and packing small pieces of insulation but we have the time, think it would be effective along with some form of extra acoustic plasterboard on the walls as earlier ?
                 
              • martin-f

                martin-f Plant Hardiness Zone 8b

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                Hi Ricky, i understand regarding the width of your room every little helps,

                You could have a new flu put down the chimney its only a few hours work, you do not want to do it illegally you could not only kill yourself you could kill next door :ideaIPB: might solve the noise issue lol,

                Its not really wise to be taking blocks out of the wall you could end up with the lot falling down the bricks/blocks will be tied and you wont be able to slide boards in as well, look into getting some type of spray foam/cavity wall foam should help along with your new boards.
                 
              • ricky101

                ricky101 Super Gardener

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                Hi Martin,

                We always use a gas safe engineer, (ex BG) but he has already mentioned that its not possible to use the existing flue and its too small to insert a liner into, thats why we were looking at an electric fire as the central heating is the main heat source, the fire is more for the 'comfort' effect.

                When you are doing any such soundproofing, did you use / come across any company selling the sound isolating rubber panels or sheets at a realistic price ?
                Seems using such products is the key to getting an effective barrier.
                 
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                • martin-f

                  martin-f Plant Hardiness Zone 8b

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                  Hi Ricky,

                  You might find this of interest CVO Flueless Guide - cvo.co.uk

                  No sorry i didn't pay much attention to them due to the price i just mentioned to the customers there was a few ways of doing it and a new stud wall was the cheapest less mess and most effective way everyone went down the cheap route so ive never shopped around,

                  What price have you found them at out of interest from memory they was over £30mtr.
                   
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                  • ricky101

                    ricky101 Super Gardener

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                    Hi Martin,

                    Thanks for the link, seems a close battle between one of those or electric, though plenty of time to decide.
                    The other factor is that the original position the builders put the wall flue in is not ideal , as other neighbours agree, so a non flue fire, gas or electric would have that advantage.

                    Also if we used any wall soundproofing containing anything other than plasterboard expect it would not be acceptable with a fires flue ..?

                    Have not found any place offering those M20 panels for much less that £30 inc vat and looking at flooring sites, seems similar stuff is still around the same price.

                    Have looked at the Resilient bar method but when you go into the detail is either a similar price to the M20 panels if you want to keep in thin, or less expensive if you effectively create a stud wall.

                    Would have been so much easier to build a separate stud wall if the room was wider, but all agree loosing 100mm+ would look odd.

                    Will let you know what we end up with. :smile:
                     
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                    • ricky101

                      ricky101 Super Gardener

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                      Hi,

                      Been doing a bit of web research and seems it has a lot of contradictions over soundproofing, wondered if anyone has any thoughts on our proposals ?

                      The pic of the M20 rubber panels in the opening post are secured to the existing wall with a high strength spray adhesive and then two layers of Soundblock/Acoustic plasterboard glued to the M20 sheets in a floating manner.

                      However not found any independent reports from users of this system and my biggest concern is the ability of that spray glue to hold the weight of the plasterboards over time ...? !

                      I know modern adhesives are good, but holding heavy boards up for many years , and also will the M20 rubber panels actually slump over time when the floating gap is only 5mm ?


                      What we are thinking of something like the pic below, but the Noisestop panels replaced with two layers of floating acoustic plasterboard with a TecSound mass membrane between the boards.

                      Its not as efficient as a separate stud wall but it is under 50mm deep.

                      Tec sound info - Tecsound SY70 | iKoustic Soundproofing


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                    • WeeTam

                      WeeTam Total Gardener

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                      Have yoj looked under the floorboards and above the ceilings? Noise flanks. Seal any cracks between wall and skirting boards using noise sealants. Look into your electricity switch boxs for voids too..

                      Ive got the same probs as you so will keep an eye on this thresd for any great ideas :blue thumb:
                       
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                      • ricky101

                        ricky101 Super Gardener

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                        Hi,

                        Yes, thanks, am aware of flanking , though the main noise is through the cavity wall.

                        We have a suspended timber floor with a deep void beneath so easy to get to if needed and being a bungalow the ceiling is equally accessible.

                        Got plenty of AC50 sealant, this seems good stuff and also doubles as an adhesive, a good price from here, or you can get the fire rated AC95 if needed.
                        https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product...7600358-Acoustic-Sealant-And-Adhesive-C4-Ac50

                        What kind of wall /room structure are you looking to soundproof ..
                         
                      • WeeTam

                        WeeTam Total Gardener

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                        Im in a flat with impact noise from next doors kitchen on one side and talking/tv noise from another neigbours lounge on the other side.

                        Wooden floors on their side transmits the sounds. Ive got to get it sorted . Luckily me excellent choice in thumping dance music drowns them out most days :music:
                         

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