Waste of space

Since we recently moved to another office, I can now see out to many flat roofs of city centre office buildings. I've often thought what a waste of space it is. Then by chance this is on the BBC today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8295000/8295738.stm

Wouldn't it be great if all that flat roof space was utilised for growing plants. It could help in so many ways.

For starters, it would make the view from my window nicer. Studies have shown that a nice view is not just 'nice', but can help reduce stress levels and make more productive workers. So business wins there.

We keep getting told about the problem of food miles, and food shortages. Grow it on the flat roofs. Ok, it wouldn't be a magic bullet, but it would go a long way.

The vegetation would take CO2 from the atmosphere, thus helping to reduce climate change.

When we get torrential rain, the burden on the drains would be reduced, as the soil that the plants would grow in would soak it all up, just to release it in a controlled manner when the sun comes out, through evaporation. So flooding would be less likely.

In winter time, there would be less need for heating in the offices because the vegetation and the compost it grows in would add to the roof insulation. This again would benefit the environment, and reduce heating bills for the greedy corporations.

We know that many insect species are in decline due to habitat loss. Vegging up roof space would go some way to resolving that problem.

There would be less burden on landfill sights, as locally produced compost could be used locally.

In fact the only downside I can foresee is that all that compost and vegatation is going to weigh a fair bit, so someone would have to make sure the roof could take it.

Some might point out that the plants need to be looked after. That's true, but depending on what species you choose, you could have a practically zero maintenance arrangement.

So there you go, I've just solved all the world's problems in one go. Ok, maybe not all, but it would help don't you think?

 

Good idea Clueless - but I'm sure that there's some beurocrat somewhere who has it written up in H&S rules that roof gardening is too dangerous an occupation, and all sorts of licensing and the like would be required......but good food for thought!

 

Hi Clueless I think it's a good idea.Wouldn't it be so much nicer to look out on greenery rather than bricks etc.
We are losing gardens to the car parking spaces needed too.

 

Hi Clueless. This is a great idea, one that has been implemented in a number of areas in this country, including Sheffield. Having roof gardens wherever possible would indeed help solve some of the CO2 problems we have, and I believe that we owe it to mother earth to act responsibly, and not keep on turning our front gardens into off-road parking spaces. If anyone has done this, and then they get flooded out, they have only themselves to blame for their own stupidity, while others suffer through no fault of their own.

Today, we hear of more and more green belt being taken by new housing projects, when instead they should be using inner city brown sites. Of course, I also feel strongly about cities and towns creating these wide open green spaces (parks), spaces devoid of just about everything except grass. Why can't they use this space to plant a variety of species trees?

And why is it that when certain people buy a house, the first thing they want to do is to cut down any trees growing on their newly bought property? Trees convert more CO2 into oxygen than any other single plant on this planet of ours.

Yes, build roof gardens wherever possible, but shouldn't we also stop this destruction I've just talked about first. After all, once a eighty year old tree has been chopped down, there's thousands of tons of CO2 to replace it. Sorry to ramble on a bit, folks.

 

Natalie - You're probably right. Its a shame, because I think other countries have been managing fine with roof gardens forever. A mate of mine went to Norway a couple of years back, and he said that in the more rural parts it is commonplace for a roof to be covered in vegetation. In fact one rather amusing photo he showed me featured a goat happily grazing on the roof of a large log cabin But yes, in Britain, we have to watch out for the over enthusiastic Health and Safety police.

Jazmine - Good point about the car parking spaces. Another annoyance of mine is that the government wants us to leave our cars at home as much as possible, while at the same time public transport continues on the slippery downhill slope, and cycling provisions generally consist of a bit of paint along the edge of a very busy road.

Strawman - I agree with all of what you just said. From what you say, it seems like you share one of my bug bears, in that few people seem to realise that many issues are linked.

I bet if the government looked at vegging up roofs, there's be a study into how much CO2 it would capture, they'd decide is wasn't much, and then dismiss the idea. A completely separate study might look at how much food might be grown this way, decide it wasn't much, and dismiss the idea. A different study would look at each key point individually, and conclude that it wasn't cost effective, rather than looking at all the advantages combined, for a single investment, which would be much more tempting.

I think the bit about concreting over gardens is being addressed. I think they introduced legislation so that you need planning permission to do so now, I'm not sure.

The saddest part of all this is that with a bit of thought, and a relatively small investment, a massive difference can be made. It just needs someone with a bit of influence to take the initiative, and learn to actually think. Too often these days things are decided by a bunch of accountants sat in an office.

While I'm in rant mode, that brings me onto another bug bear of mine when it comes to all things environmental. You get the scientists looking at stuff closely, running computer simulations, reading previous studies etc. Then you get the farmers who've noticed that their hedgerows flowered a month early for the last two years, or that their fields are a bit boggier than usual. Both the scientist and the farmer each have half the picture, but nobody ever puts both halves together to see what's really going on.

 

We have several schools down our way that when they are having their new builds done, they are having the vegetative roofs put on. We used to love taking our kids to a local farm shop/garden centre in Nova Scotia - they also had a grass roof, and sets of stairs/ramps etc. going up to various levels, and in the spring and summer months they brought in goats from a local goat farmer. The kids always enjoyed seeing them grazing up on the roof

 

Yes indeed, Clueless. So many things said in this thread are linked in a big way. Unfortunately, it's not everyone that sees the sense in either growing veg on foortops, or simply having a grass roof that has wild flowers sewn within the seed mix.

This this would keep houses, or offices cool in summer, and warm in winter, but it doesn't appear to fit into bureaucratic equations and therefore, way of life. Like everything else, this would have its supporters as well as those against it.

Apart from my own off-road parking area,,, bricks sloping in a herring bone design, and a patio of slabs with gaps between to let the rain soak away in both cases, the gardens are growing areas with trees and shrubs to help with the CO2 problem.

 

Perhaps we should take notice of this I think that solar panel, wind turbines, and living roofs should be the norm, and not the exception.

 

Thanks for posting the link. Its a very good article. There's one point the raise that always confuses me though:

I can never understand why eco projects need to be expensive. For example, the reed bed sewage treatment part. Surely it is cheaper to create and maintain a reed bed than it is to install and look after a septic tank or connect to the mains.

Its good to see that a division of the church has gone that way. Often devout religious folks are seen (possibly incorrectly) as being behind the times, so its good when they set an example.

Oh, and while I'm on the point about eco friendly loos, I once read up on a concept called the 'tree bog' (its not what the name suggests ). Here it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_bog

Also a video about it here, along with lots of other vids. Sorry I can't say if the videos are any good or not because I can't view them at work:
http://www.woodlandstv.co.uk/videos?page=3#latest-films

 

I completely agree with you. The problem is if you do anything out of the ordinary even if its eco friendly..you`ll probably get tagged as slightly eccentric
I guess i must be as mad as a hatter by that yardstick... its not finished yet but here`s my latest project. It cost next to nothing as most of the materials were laying around. It will help heat my brick shed in the winter if/when the sun shines..no need for expensive hi-tech solutions if you don`t aim too high.
Without the glazing and insulation it reached 164F today, it`ll be fairly efficient when its finished

 

I believe that alternate methods of energy, etc, are shown to be expensive simply because they are new. But when I say new, I don't mean the technology, since this has been around for quite some time. No, it's new to the general public and we're the one's who will have to pay a heafty price for this 'new' technology to replace the old. However, having said this much, the way I see things, the trouble begins when you want planning permission for that wind turbine or photovoltaic cell arrangement. At a time when local councils should be giving planning permission as easy as it normally gives us problems, they seem to ignore the fact that we should all be going down this road to conserve our energy needs. Our councils are like the proverbial ostrich with its head buried in the sand...

 

clueless1 gets my vote for PM :gnthb:

 

I've enjoyed reading this thread which is full of wonderful ideas. I'm a big fan of conservation and environment and think it is an uphill struggle to get our "leaders" to see sense on these issues. They only seem to see ££££s.

 

Absolutely right, Tierella. MPs have no interest whatsoever in dealing with our energy issues. The ideas mentioned on this thread are some of the best ways to dealing with energy issues, but what can you do when Gordon Brown sells off the energy companies, he isn't going to say "Sorry, fellas, but we've decided to go down the road of cheaper renewables, you're now on your own". His own brother works for EDF, so one has to wonder where his loyalties lay.

Given the opportunity, I'd have a wind turbine tomorrow, plus a garden on the roof and composting toilets. I can't see the local council being overly thrilled at granting ideas like these.

 

My Taiwanese mate told me a Chinese proverb that apparently is quite central to their way of thinking. "The tree that bends in the wind won't break". I think that is so relevant in many things, not least this. As more and more people become aware of what we're doing to our planet and what we must do to save it, and more and more governments are increasing the pressure to do something, energy companies must adapt to survive. It may be that not enough will be done, and not soon enough, but sooner or later, whether its because of environmental concerns or simply because fossil fuels are becoming harder to extract as we deplete the main reserves, energy companies will have to make a tough choice. They will either have to adapt, or go bust. The frustrating part is that long term, the company that gets in their first with new ideas will do best. I can't help thinking that those that make the decisions, those right at the top, are about ready for retirement and think to themselves that if they can milk the status quo for another few years, then they won't have to worry about what happens after that as they'll be financially sorted for the rest of their lives either way.