What does "frost free" actually mean?

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by "M", Jan 11, 2013.

  1. "M"

    "M" Total Gardener

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    18,607
    Location:
    The Garden of England
    Ratings:
    +31,886
    As some of you may have noticed, I've picked up some bargain plants in the past couple of days. Among which are:-

    ~ cordyline
    ~ date palms
    ~ miniature Christmas trees (they will be another thread :heehee: )

    I understand they all need to be kept in a "frost free" place. But, what does that actually *mean* :dunno:

    The places I have available are:-

    ~ garage
    ~ shed (non heated)
    ~ laundry room
    ~ dark brick outhouses x2 (eg no windows, no lights)

    Currently, the mini Christmas trees are on a mantel shelf in the dining room, the date palms are on either side of the fireplace (fire isn't lit) and the cordylines have been put on a shelf in the laundry room.

    I believe I'm right in saying that the date palms become hardier the bigger they get? :dunno: (saw some photo's on an older thread of huge ones near Portsmouth!) but for the first few years they need a bit of tender care? How big do they need to get before they would be considered hardy enough to be kept outside year round?

    The cordyline I believe will always need to be brought into (somewhere) during the winter months. Or, fleeced if left outside?

    The mini Christmas trees (that will be a different thread).

    I would ask Mr Mum, but I have a feeling he would answer "anywhere not in the freezer" :heehee:
     
  2. Jenny namaste

    Jenny namaste Total Gardener

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    18,483
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    retired- blissfully retired......
    Location:
    Battle, East Sussex
    Ratings:
    +31,939
    Of the 4 places you have described Mum,
    the one with the most light that stays the warmest must surely be the one? I think we are in for a cold spell and they wouldn't like the big OUTDOORS and they won't be happy with a cosy, indoor central heating abode. IMHO,
    Jenny
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • "M"

      "M" Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Aug 11, 2012
      Messages:
      18,607
      Location:
      The Garden of England
      Ratings:
      +31,886
      Thank you, Jenny.

      So, indoors is out!

      Next brightest would be either the garage or the laundry room - although neither gets any "heat" as such (but, I suppose the freezer and washing machine do generate a bit of warm?) Unfortately, both of those rooms have north facing windows :doh:

      My shed has a south facing window, but nothing to generate any warmth above the outside temperature (but, I haven't seen frost in there :dunno: )

      Hmmm, need to rethink the palms and miniature Christmas trees then :scratch:
       
    • Jenny namaste

      Jenny namaste Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Mar 11, 2012
      Messages:
      18,483
      Gender:
      Female
      Occupation:
      retired- blissfully retired......
      Location:
      Battle, East Sussex
      Ratings:
      +31,939
      Just gotta go for the best option,
      maybe with a bit of cuddly bubble wrap?
       
    • Grannie Annie

      Grannie Annie Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Aug 7, 2012
      Messages:
      2,880
      Gender:
      Female
      Location:
      Lincolnshire
      Ratings:
      +2,632
      I agree with Jenny.

      Read somewhere when potting up a plant, before putting the compost in put some bubble wrap on the inside of the pot and it saves having to bubble wrap pots if a frost comes.
      Never tried it but think I might give it a try.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Jenny namaste

        Jenny namaste Total Gardener

        Joined:
        Mar 11, 2012
        Messages:
        18,483
        Gender:
        Female
        Occupation:
        retired- blissfully retired......
        Location:
        Battle, East Sussex
        Ratings:
        +31,939
        That sounds smart ,
        Good thinking Batwoman :blue thumb:
         
      • "M"

        "M" Total Gardener

        Joined:
        Aug 11, 2012
        Messages:
        18,607
        Location:
        The Garden of England
        Ratings:
        +31,886
        Top tip, GA :dbgrtmb:

        :scratch: Wouldn't it make them sweat in the summer though :dunno:
         
      • clueless1

        clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

        Joined:
        Jan 8, 2008
        Messages:
        17,778
        Gender:
        Male
        Location:
        Here
        Ratings:
        +19,597
        Mum, these christmas trees, what species are they? And when you say 'miniture', do you mean they are just still young or they are some species that stays compact?

        The 'standard' christmas tree in the UK is usually the Norway Spruce I believe, but should be more than capability of riding out one of our winters.

        As for the other stuff, no idea from me, other than a word of caution about 'frost free' places in general. This comes from a book, not personal experience, but here goes. The obvious place to put tender plants outside is in a sheltered south east spot, which will typically be the warmest. However, if tender plants in such a spot do get a little bit of frost exposure overnight, they will suffer damage in the morning when the sun shines straight onto their frozen foliage, causing too rapid a temperature change thereby causing more damage than if the plant had endured the same low temperature but warmed much more slowly throughout the morning. Just something to be aware of.
         
        • Like Like x 1
        • JWK

          JWK Gardener Staff Member

          Joined:
          Jun 3, 2008
          Messages:
          32,371
          Gender:
          Male
          Location:
          Surrey
          Ratings:
          +49,763
          It really depends what sort of cordyline you have, the brightly coloured ones are not as hardy as ordinary green ones. I have my 'Red Star' in a pot during the summer sunk into the soil, it then comes into my greenhouse over-winter. It will take a few degrees of frost (last winter it withstood -10 deg C and took a few months to recover in the spring). I have some green ones and a yellow variagated one, they are much hardier and mine stay outdoors all the time. I tie the leaves up on the taller ones and wrap them in fleece when the bad weather comes. I noticed other people's larger Cordylines were lost the winter before last, it cuts them down but they generally sprout from the base again.

          I've tried growing Canary Island Date Palms a couple of times and lost them in the very first winter. Last year I tried again and covered it in insulation and fleece, but it was killed by the -10, I won't try growing them again.
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • pamsdish

            pamsdish Total Gardener

            Joined:
            Apr 5, 2008
            Messages:
            5,151
            Gender:
            Female
            Occupation:
            Retired
            Location:
            "Black Country Wench" in Margam,Port Talbot,Wales
            Ratings:
            +4,445
            Were they indoors when you bought them or in the"outside" garden area.My cordylines have never been brought in, potted them up and left to get on with it ,so I would put them in the garage, as possibly not hardened off enough.
            I thought the cordylines were decimated by virus that year John. I lost a largish one in the front garden ,but it also started to sprout from the base. So I potted it up and its going along quite well.
             
            • Like Like x 2
            • stephenprudence

              stephenprudence GC Weather Guru

              Joined:
              Jul 17, 2010
              Messages:
              1,719
              Gender:
              Male
              Occupation:
              General Asisstant (for now), and full time immatur
              Location:
              Wirral, Zone 9a
              Ratings:
              +2,369
              frost free technically means not below 0C, but depending on which date palm and which Cordyline you have depends on whether it can realistically go outside.

              The true date palm is Phoenix dactylifera, which should still tolerate fairly low temperatures, or it could be Phoenix canariensis.

              As for Cordyline, if it's Cordyline fruticosa (the very small one with multi-colour broad leaves) then it has no chance outside, but if it's the Cordyline australis then it's not going to die in a normal winter, and can take frost.
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • longk

                longk Total Gardener

                Joined:
                Nov 24, 2011
                Messages:
                11,386
                Location:
                Oxfordshire
                Ratings:
                +23,104
                Is the garage attached to the house?
                At my old house it was and I just huddled the tender plants in the area around the air brick - if you have one of those that's the best spot.
                The poor light is not such an issue as the plants are dormant and only need be there for the worst of the weather.
                One tip; Stand the pots on piles of old newspapers to insulate them further.
                 
                • Like Like x 1
                • "M"

                  "M" Total Gardener

                  Joined:
                  Aug 11, 2012
                  Messages:
                  18,607
                  Location:
                  The Garden of England
                  Ratings:
                  +31,886
                  No idea :redface: but I did begin a thread solely about them, with a picture in case someone might be able to identify them.

                  Top tip, thank you!! :dbgrtmb:

                  All were outdoors, except the Christmas trees (they were on the houseplant shelf).

                  Thank you, Stephen :dbgrtmb: I'll double check the pots for the proper names :redface:

                  Yes, the garage is attached.
                  Great tip, would never have thought to stand them on newspaper for insulation, brilliant; thank you! :dbgrtmb:
                   
                • Kristen

                  Kristen Under gardener

                  Joined:
                  Jul 22, 2006
                  Messages:
                  17,534
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Location:
                  Suffolk, UK
                  Ratings:
                  +12,669
                  I'm with LongK. put them somewhere cold, but not freezing - i.e. garage. Indoors will be too warm / wrong atmosphere. They won't mind the lack of light provided that they are not warm. During mild spells put them outside so they get some of nice moist weather!!
                   
                  • Like Like x 1
                  Loading...

                  Share This Page

                  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                    Dismiss Notice