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What? Where? When?

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by JJ28, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. JJ28

    JJ28 Gardener

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    I'm trying to read up & get to grips with crop rotation. As I understand it at present....roots, then brassicas, then legumes. But what about onions??? :-/
     
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    • miraflores

      miraflores Total Gardener

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      Hi jj28,:SUNsmile:
      this is a rough translation, but I hope that it will give you an idea. There are two ways...
      FIRST METHOD


      1ST GROUP significant consumers of nutrients:

      cabbage (all types except for the kohlrabi)
      cucumbers
      salads
      eggplant
      melons
      potatoes
      pepperoni
      tomatoes
      celery and celeriac
      spinach
      pumpkins and zucchini.

      2ND GROUPaverage consumers of nutrients:

      garlic
      red beards
      chard
      kale
      carrots
      chicory
      onions
      herbs
      fennel
      leeks
      chicory
      radishes
      arugula
      salsify.

      3RD GROUP weak consumer of nutrients:

      beans and green beans
      fave
      peas
      parsley.

      divide garden in three sectors (sectors 1, 2 and 3).
      Suppose we start the cultivation of vegetables: in
      sector 1 will be cultivated vegetables in the first group (high consumers), in
      sector 2 will be cultivated vegetables belonging to the group of average consumers and in sector 3 vegetables of group 3.

      In the next cycle,
      in the
      second sector you will sow vegetables of the 2ND group that will be able to exploit the residual fertility, later there will cultivate those in the 3RD group, the less demanding (most of which belongs to the family Leguminosae) that will then secure the atmospheric nitrogen thereby enriching the soil of useful organic substances, making it suitable for the subsequent cultivation of plants of the 1ST group, those more demanding.

      SECOND METHOD
      In the first year we proceed like this>

      sector 1: potatoes
      Sector 2: legumes and cabbage
      Domain 3: Root Vegetables
      field 4: Leafy vegetables.
      Second year:

      sector 1: Leafy vegetables
      sector 2: root vegetables
      Domain 3: legumes and cabbage
      field 4: potatoes.
      Third year:

      sector 1: legumes and cabbage
      sector 2: Leafy vegetables
      Domain 3: potatoes
      field 4: root vegetables.
      Fourth year:

      sector 1: root vegetables
      sector 2: potatoes
      Domain 3: Leafy vegetables
      field 4: legumes and cabbage.

      When the rotation is finished, fertilize the ground and restart the cycle.:phew:
       
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      • JJ28

        JJ28 Gardener

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        Thank you for very detailed reply. I didn't realise potatoes could go in with cabbages. I don't really eat potatoes but like to have as many butternut squash as possible to store for the winter. Also eat lots of peas and beans. The logistics of rotation are confusing, as I seem to need bigger section for some classifications than others....but for rotation to be possible they all need to be the same size. I'm thinking could fill spaces in any sector with lettuces?
         
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        • miraflores

          miraflores Total Gardener

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          of course in an ideal world you rotate, but, failing that, you can add nutrients to the soil or natural fertilizers.
           
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          • shiney

            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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            Using rotation of crops is important if you wish to grow a large variety and to keep the health of the plots.

            On a more practical basis it also depends on how wide a variety you really want to grow (not much point in growing potatoes if you don't eat them).

            To grow a lot of butternut squash you need lots of space and it may not be practical to try and rotate with other less space hungry crops. In which case you may just need to use the same plot but keep it healthy (not much problem with butternut squash) and fertilise and compost well each autumn.

            Onions are pretty easy growers, if you give them good soil conditions, and can be grown almost anywhere (we quite often grow them near roses and legumes as they help keep aphids away). You just need to make sure you don't have a problem with onion fly because if you do then you should not plant in the same place.

            If you do have a problem with sizes of plots and the quantity of each crop you wish to grow then you may need to stick to not rotating some of them. I grow a lot of runner beans (200+ plants each year) plus French beans etc. I've been growing them on the same spot for over 40 years with no trouble but make sure they have their roots in well dug, well composted and fertilised soil.

            So, rotate crops if practical. Otherwise do the best you can. :blue thumb:

            Hint, if not rotating: it may not do a lot, but if you grow a reasonable amount of leguminous plants you can dig their plot in the autumn, lift the roots (they will be bulbous with little nitrogen retaining knobs) and dig them into the plot you intend planting the IST Group above. They may release some of that into the soil by planting time.
             
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            • JJ28

              JJ28 Gardener

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              I'd like to try rotation, haven't had enough space to even consider it before. This may mean I have some empty spaces for a season. Will also try additional butternuts in large pots with space to wander onto patio area.
               
            • shiney

              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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              To get a really successful crop of butternut squash they need a lot of space!

              184_8427.JPG
               
            • JJ28

              JJ28 Gardener

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              Planting for crop rotation was quite simple last year. Now's the time it could go wrong. I'm thinking - where there were butternut squash last year, put onions, kale, sprouts this year. Where runner beans, peas last year, put butternut squash. Where there were onions, kale, sprouts, put runner beans, peas. I'd really appreciate comments on whether this sounds ok please.....
               
            • Muriel

              Muriel Apprentice Gardener

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            • Muriel

              Muriel Apprentice Gardener

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              A newbie to gardening and this site so I hope I’m doing this correctly!

              Today I dug out all remaining potatoes from a small 6x4 section of my veg garden, weeded and then topped with garden compost, with the intention of sowing onion in October. I’ve since read it’s not a good idea to follow potatoes with onion so if I don’t plant anything is it ok to cover the bed now with black weed suppress fabric until the spring?
               
            • Linz

              Linz Total Gardener

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              Muriel, I planted onions in the same space as my potatoes last year and they were fine. I've done the same this year too, I have read you should follow spuds with leeks.. my thinking was onions and leeks are same family so what's the harm. As for covering the ground with weed suppressant, yes go for it if your not growing anything over winter. Might be wise to turn it over first and add bit of well rotted manure, remember you still have weed seeds dormant that will pop up next year mind!
              Another good option is to use "green manure" such as blue lupins (I used last year, things have been growing great). I'd not worry too much though, as your space is quite small. Maybe try some broad beans over winter, alongside the onions, if you like them :)
               
            • Muriel

              Muriel Apprentice Gardener

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              Many thanks I think I’ll go ahead with the onion, the family doesn’t like broad beans!
               
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