Where is the justice these days?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8244874.stm

An 18 year old lad detained and stripped and tied up two 15 year olds, and filmed as his mates beat them up. He was also caught with a sawn off shotgun.

He's gone to jail for his offences, but how long for? Just over four years. And when I say 'jail', he's actually gone to a young offenders institute, where he'll have a nice cosy cell with a TV and access to all sorts of facilities.

What is this country coming to? The lad will be out in a couple of years with 'good behaviour' (ie not burning the place down or anything).

What happened to the law that said just being caught with a firearm, even if you hadn't used it, would get you 5 years inside?

Shocking is what it is. In fact its shameful. It makes me feel ashamed to be British.

 

Know that, and unfortunately, after he is out, he will again repeat an offense which will cause yet again another trial, and work for the attorneys, judges, police, and jail people.
This is called Job Security. And then more taxes will be taken from you to pay for this again event, this is called over taxation.

 

That is absolutely shocking. With regards to the '5 year min' sentence for having a firearm, what about the son that gave a gun to his dad in hospital recently so that his dad could commit suicide?

The law is an a*s, as has been said before!

cheers

 

"The teenager was sentenced to three years for the firearms offences and a total of 16 months for the other offences, to be served consecutively"


Disgusting !!!

 

To be fair to the coppers, I think they do do their jobs, at least as well as they can with all the obstacles that the law further along the line keeps putting in front of them.

Just imagine if you were a copper working on this case. You've spent possibly months grilling people, gathering evidence, studying that evidence to see what else you can squeeze out of it, built a rock solid case, ran it by your gaffer whose sent you to get more evidence, finally got a rock solid case. You apply to the crown prosecution service and convince them that you've got a case, round up witnesses, brief the prosecution solicitor, submit copies of evidence to the defence, and finally go to court.

You've given personal assurances to the prosecution witnesses that they'll be safe for a long time. You go to court, get the verdict you've worked so hard to get, and then some spineless worm of a judge puts your perpetrator away in one of her majesty's 5 star hotels for some ridiculously short time.

Then imagine you're that same copper and its after the court case. You get another case to investigate. This time somebody has been beaten to a pulp and left in the gutter. You really want to make the world a better place but you're faced with the prospect of a huge amount of work, for no respect. You know that the best you can hope for is to get the criminal put away for next to no time.

I'm not a copper by the way (in case you're wondering ), and nor would I ever be. As I see it, it is a dangerous and thankless job for which you get no respect no matter what you do. Its no wonder we have a few lazy and even corrupt coppers. They are after all human, and we can only be demoralised so much before we crack.

 

Hi Clueless,
yes it is disgusting but we seem to hear so many cases like this-dreadful crimes being committed and the offenders getting away with a light sentence.
This crime sounds like one of those "happy slapping" things but obviously a very serious case. Why would people want to view things like this? There is something wrong with them.

As for the police I think they do do their job in most cases but like anything in life there will always be the "bad apples"
I support them because my son is in security and has just been accepted to have more powers now - he wants to try for the police at a later date.
I hear the other side of what police and security have to put up with trying to protect the public - my son has been taunted, hit with belts, kicked, dealt with drugtakers and drunks out of their skulls, you name it- the job is full of danger so they have my support any day. People tend to forget all the good they do. :gnthb:

 

And coppers and security people etc will have to keep on dealing with all this as long as the courts keep being so lenient.

I suspect half the trouble is that our jails are full, so people get let off, or get lenient sentences. Trouble is its catch 22 because as long as people get lenient sentences, the incentive some people seem to need to behave themselves just isn't there so they end up adding to the jail figures.

To me, the government should take some that tax money they keep wasting on things like stupid reports, and teams of overpaid bureacrats, and spend that money instead on a few more jails. Then they could lock up people for a proper duration, and then those lowlife scum that need an incentive to behave can have one.

If I was a judge in a court, I'd give violent criminals the maximum sentence that the law would allow. My name would get round, and defence solicitors would have to learn to very apologetically tell their client "I'm sorry, we've got judge Clueless1", and the defendant's heart would sink (although if I was really called judge Clueless1 it would probably spoil the effect a bit to be honest ).

 

Clueless - I have to agree with your post wholeheartedly. The majority of police, as with the majority of any good profession - do their jobs, and do them well. I have experienced the trials and tribulations the police have to go to to get a conviction in the UK first hand - but after several years of harassment and racially motivated criminal damage and threats, the husband and wife involved both received criminal records of harassment and criminal damage. There's alot more that they should've been done with - but with the red tape and bureacracy - I was glad with the above outcome - as it at least meant they would never be able to work with or around, or volunteer with or around, young children (they used to threaen my three youngest - the youngest of whom was only 2 when it all started). Justice was done - and they're set to get on with their miserable lives.
However, when the police do do their job- it's still not good enough for some. Another person with a criminal conviction of harassing a senior citizen - will protest to this day that she did naught wrong - yet agree, it is hard to get a conviction without the appropriate evidence. Hmmmm

I think one of the major problems with fighting crime here, is that the laws in many cases, are very antiquated and have alot of catching up to do. I used to work for police in Canada - and being a much younger country, many of the laws are alot easier to enforce and not quite so in the dark ages.

 

This is exactly the problem .... well said Clueless

 

Well said Clueless.

I cannot get my head round why people feel the need to hurt others. Some of the offenders are getting younger and younger, some as young as 10 or 11 -at that age they should be playing. Take the case of that poor little Jamie Bulger. What would be the best way to punish the offenders? Do they really know what they are doing?

Maybe the internet plays a part in the crime? There is now access to a lot of disturbing stuff - at the click of the mouse kids can see almost anything. Maybe I was protected growing up but I know my mind was on playing with friends and the worst thing I did was pick some flowers from a neighbours. My dad went mental and made me go round to apologise.
We feared and respected the police too.

 

The bottom line is that the country can't afford to jail every criminal for the length of time they deserve.

And just to be objective-and perhaps contentious, long and hard jail terms never stopped crimes being committed anyway, corporal punishment didn't and capital punishment didn't, never in a month of Sundays will serious jail-time, or tyrannical judges, work as a deterrent, only ever as a punishment. Thieves get their hands chopped off in some countries-is there no theft in those countries-or just a lot of one handed thieves?


And even should the emphasis move back over to one purely of punishment, that won't change things-the jails just get fuller and fuller, we need more of them -who wants a new jail built near them? Who wants to pay for it?


Violent and hideous crimes have been committed since the first ape.


In no way am I saying that we should therefore shrug our shoulders and move on, letting people off as we go, I am just thinking aloud-are we prepared to pay for it?

 

Yes. Or at least I knew it was wrong to deliberately hurt people from as far back as I can remember, and I can remember as far back as pre-school.

I think in the Jamie Bulger case, the perpetrators (who I think are due to be released), should have been detained for a very long time, regardless of the fact they were kids themselves when they did it. Unless they can prove beyond reasonable doubt that they are different people at a fundamental level, and feel sick with shame every single day of their lives for what they did, then they are not ready to be released in my opinion.

If you assault somebody, you should go down for a few years. If you murder somebody, you should be old before you get out. The two lads that killed Jamie Bulger are in their 20s now if I'm now mistaken. In their prime, fitter and faster than they'll ever been at any other time in their lives. If they still have the sick and twisted minds that they had when they did it, imagine how much more capable they are now that they are stronger, faster and fitter. What they did wasn't spur of the moment, heat of rage or anything like that. They lured that poor child away under the pretense of friendship, and then stoned him to death.

 

Clueless - I think they were released a year or so back .... if I remember rightly.

I do though know someone who worked at a youth detention centre one of them was at ...... he apparently didnt regret what he had done or shown any shame or sorrow. The things the lady who worked there told me were awful .... but obviously told in confidence so probably best not repeated on a forum.

The scary thing about it is that at 20 with a new identity they could well end up being my (or someone else's) son in law/daughters boyfriend .......... and we wouldnt even know ffs!

 

Google the name Dante Arthurs. I know it appears in search results like ' uran legends' 'hoax busters' etc., but.....a very good family friend in Australia is a prison officer. This Dante Arthurs is believed by them to be one of little Jamie Bulger's murderers. They were released in 2001. This 'Dante Arthurs' was done for an assault on one little girl a while back, and more recently has been done on another violent sexual assault.

 

This is a really interesting thread.

I think if we are not well informed about a subject it it easy to make sweeping statements about the police. I think they do the best they can with the powers they have. :thumb:

If we have done something wrong ie committed a crime or broken the law then we deserve all we get IMO.

I know of a lovely family who were harassed, had death threats made against them etc for a few years. The person committing this behaviour then made the news for luring a victim to a lonely area, forcing him to drink petrol and burning him to death. This was quite local to me and shocked everyone. The perpetrator of this evil deed ( and his equally evil family) have a history of disgusting behaviour. They are sick and need putting away. They offer nothing good to society, they give nothing back and never will.