Take my household for example. Some would say we're a bit old fashioned. See, it works like this. I go to work and earn enough money to keep a roof over our heads, feed and clothe us all, and have the occasional luxury or treat. My missus doesn't work. Well she does, she works extremely hard for long hours but no pay. She keeps the house clean and tidy, makes sure our son gets what he needs, takes him to school and picks him up. Then of course there's our son. His job is to enjoy his childhood as much as possible within clearly defined boundaries, knowing that he can have fun, is loved, is safe, but has to abide by the rules. Hopefully when he grows up, he'll have learned that a combination of hard work and fair play gets you everything you need and most of the stuff you want. It works. It worked for lots of generations before me. So how come now we're all obsessed with the idea that everyone of working age should work, even if it means using all your wages to pay someone else to raise the kids? I was just reading this article on the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21833929 Its saying that the government plans to give people upto 20% of their childcare costs back. So all taxpayers will be funding this initiative. It promotes a culture of DINKys (double income no kids) which is what led to the current mess we're in now, with the unsustainable house price and general inflation boom throughout the late 1990s and early 2000s, and it promotes the idea that families are about cash earning capability when surely its more important to promote that family is about family.
It all sounds very crazy to me, at a time when the government are saying they want to cut back on benefits.
Great topical debate! I think the biggest problem for most families is the percentage of income mortgage payments now account for in comparison to generations of yesteryear . As you say clueless this is linked to the still inflated cost of housing. Despite a double dip recession prices haven't fell to a great degree. It's a vicious circle for most families, working to try and pay childcare costs! What are members thoughts on this idea? A percentage of benefits to be paid via a prepaid card which can only be used to purchase food etc.
House prices are still inflated, but they're not so inflated that they are out of reach for a single salary family in many cases. Its about buying what you can afford rather than what you really like. When I bought my house about 3 years ago, I could have (if the mortgage company had let me) bought a house in the exact location I wanted, costing me twice as much for half as much property as what I ended up with. We've ended up about 2 miles from the exact location we wanted, and got a good sized house quite cheap, because that's the nature of the market. Unfortunately, as is always the case when push comes to shove, the only people that learned from the crisis are the greedy ones. The banks and estate agents and the likes. when I was buying this house, the estate agent didn't even really want to show me this house at first. They tried to push the much more expensive houses, ie the ones where their commission percentage is worth much more to them. It was only when I showed them the mortgage certificate with my limit on it that they suddenly realised they had several perfectly good houses on their books that were much cheaper. My mortgage is with a building society. They limited what I could borrow based on what I could afford to pay back, and to be fair, we agreed the limit between us over a cup of coffee and a lengthy chat. At the same time, some of the banks were offering me a much, much higher limit, which of course if I'd taken it would have contributed to rising house prices by me paying more for a house than I could really afford to, then of course a few years in I'd cave under the pressure of the unaffordable repayments, the house would get repossessed, I'd end up with nowt, and the bank would have a house to sell that had already been partly paid for.
In the same boat CL except the missus works 16hrs a week. Our little un gets looked after by his aunty every Tuesday and Wednesday for 4 hours after his nursery hours. We pay her for this and not allowed to claim for this. (wouldn't anyway) If he had to into child care it wouldn't be worth the missus working because of the costs. I'm like you CL, old fashioned in that way, you don't have kids to put them into child care! The costs are way over inflated anyway. There is a day care nursery next door to where I work and they pay below minimum wage to most of the staff because there supposedly training!!
It's very much dependent on what the single salary of the individual is though CL. All banks base lending decisions on affordability now as opposed to income multipliers as in the past. No bank would lend on the basis of hoping the customer has their property repossessed, not a very profitable way to do business! This is one of the major contributing factors to the crisis we currently find ourselves in. Getting back to the original post though I agree that families function better with the solid presence of a homemaker.
We live in a greedy society now. The more people have the more they want! I gave up work to rear my three children until they left school, I've had a couple of part time jobs since then, but i've spent most of my time refurbishing my home (DIY). My husband and I decided it actually worked out cheaper for me to stay at home than pay someone else to do the work needed. Right now he has been out of work the best part of sixteen months having been made redundant twice in a year. Being close to retirement age we don't hold out much hope of him getting another job, so we're struggling on dole money which doesn't pay our bills and our savings are disappearing. On the other hand, my eldest daughter is running herself into the ground, rearing two young children, running a four bedroomed house and working what is almost a full time job in a responsible position. She and her husband earn very well between them and as I said above the more they have the more they want. She is permanently ill and rattles from all the pills she takes. I just can't understand why money and possessions come before health, it's madness!
Sadly it's the way of the world now GREED Everyone must have better than the next person! I don't care for keeping up with the jones. Learnt from a very young age to save save save, If you want it that much what's wrong with earning it. It's just too easy nowadays to get credit on everything. At least I can sleep easy at night knowing I don't owe a penny to anyone other than the building society for the mortgage and my health is in good order
What about all the familys that have NOT had any childen, what do they get, you must pay more tax's and get nowt
And you pay through the nose for it again at that end. Are not most nursing and senior care homes staffed by migrant workers or immigrants. It does appear that way to me.
I do get your point, Pete; but, that was just a small example of the "services" those people who didn't have children will be benefitting from. So, do we post a greater list? How about council workers? Members of Parliament? Shop keepers? Banking staff? Sewage workers? Library staff? Shop staff? Bus drivers? You see my point? The fact is, without up and coming generations to take the helm, a "society" falls flat on its face: null and void. So, choose not to have children: that is your choice. But, think very carefully (and deeply!) before using that as an argument against paying taxes which just may "appear" to benefit people who do choose to have children. It is not a cut and dried argument by any means.
I actually take that as an offensive statement c1. We were DINKYs and we DID NOT make the current mess you are in. We CHOSE not to have children just as you CHOSE to have a child. We worked our asses off for 38 years, sometimes never seeing each other for days on end. We own five properties but we don't owe anyone anything. We don't have credit cards. We pay cash for what we want. We don't rely on the State ... we live on our bloody well hard-earned income. We have never claimed a penny from the Government, be it in America or the UK. We now are enjoying the luxury of an early retirement in a warm country with no commitments. As far as how we will survive now that we have been pensioners for the past ten years ... we will do it on our own. We ask nor expect anything from anyone. The State gives us zero that we have not earned or paid into ... and that we are ENTITLED because we have paid our dues big time.
The point is Mum, that the population of this small country is actually rising all the time, if not from those born here, then from those that choose to live here. I see no reason why I should pay to support other peoples children. If you cant afford kids, then dont have any. It is not a"right" to have kids at others expense, although as time goes by I see it more and more being made the states problem to pay for the up bringing of children, I dont think there has ever, in the past been a similar situation, whereby we the tax payer end up paying out so much cash to families. I often feel sorry for employers, (and that is rare for me), that suddenly find themselves having to pay out maternity benefit and employ temps to keep jobs open. The government say they want to get everyone in employment. First thing they need to do is actually come up with the jobs.
