Why is it always can't or shouldn't?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    While I was pressure washing the patio and drive, I got to pondering (as you do) as to what has happened in this world that suddenly everything is about can't/won't/shouldn't etc etc etc.

    Let me elaborate. For a start, water usage (which is where it started in my head) - we are hearing more and more that we as consumers need to curtail our water usage as there are times of water stress when we don't have enough to go around (for example, the hosepipe bans last year); but why? Why is the automatic reaction to look at getting people to reduce their usage - why is it not looked at the other way up, and increase infrastructure to cope?

    The same can be said of fuels - the answer is to actively encourage people to use less, or even to increase the prices and taxation so that eventually people won't be able to run their cars, heat their homes etc as much as they would like to; why not improve and increase technology to enable people to run cars or heat homes?

    Even something as simple as the humble carrier bag - in fairness, the massive increase in their usage and then the problems surrounding their disposal (environmental damage, biodegradability etc) was really unacceptable; why though, was the answer to simply discourage use or even attach a cost to their use to discourage it? Why was more not made of fully biodegradable technology such as the compostable bags that are used in food bins etc. Imagine is someone like Marks or Sainsbury's changed over and only supplied compostable bags to carry stuff home in - as convenient as carrier bags, fully compostable, which means they could be reused in food bins, for garden refuse or even for picking up the dogs wee parcels when out for a walk.

    It flummoxes me why we seem to be paying more and more for less, meanwhile more and more people are being put out of work :dunno:
     
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    • Phil A

      Phil A Guest

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      Don't know whats wrong with paper bags for groceries, America uses them I beleive.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        Exactly - nothing wrong with paper bags; jobs to grow the trees, jobs to fell them, jobs to process them and jobs to make the bags from the paper.

        It just confuses me why everything seems to be about doing less, or having less at the moment - and almost a fear to innovate or build. If the Victorians could see us they would be horrified at us.
         
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        • kindredspirit

          kindredspirit Gardening around a big Puddle. :)

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          Water: artesian water supplies will eventually dwindle to nothing if the human consumption of water keeps rising. A prime example is Almeria and the veg production there.

          A similar story with the fuels we use at the moment. They're finite and we haven't a cost effective alternative to them at the moment. (but we will in time - we have to.)
           
        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          But therein lies my point kindredspirit - we know that water supplies will dwindle, but rather than do anything to keep up with the demand, the only answer that is offered is to curtail people's use.
           
        • Hex_2011

          Hex_2011 Gardener

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          You cant manufacture water ;) We have pretty much the exact same amount on the planet now as we had 2 billion years ago.
           
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          • Phil A

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            True, but instead of half of Somerset being flooded for 3 months of the year it would be nice if someone built an infrastructure to take the water somewhere where it could be used when needed.

            At the moment its pumped up and out to sea.
             
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            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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              Water: I've never been able to see the point of us in the UK worrying about water. We get plenty of the stuff. We just need better infrastructure for keeping it. It bugs me when people get threatened with fines for watering their gardens during a hosepipe ban, yet the water companies are allowed to lose millions of gallons of the stuff through leaky pipes while the board of directors keep getting paid obscene salaries.

              Fuel: We have to think about that. I think its better to look at reducing need for it rather than looking for alternative sources. Not so many years ago, things like double glazing and loft insulation were unheard of, so stuff we have been taking for granted for a while is already helping to reduce our need. What I don't like though is when certain parties would make us feel guilty for leaving a mobile phone charger switched on, while there are industrial plants with their own dedicated power stations just to feed them. One of the petrochemical plants near where I work produces colossal amounts of plastics. They have their own power station, and still have to additionally buy in several million quids worth of electricity from the national grid.

              Plastic bags: There's too many. In South Africa they have been branded the unofficial national flower because of how many there are blowing about and trapped in trees etc. In this day and age, there is, in my opinion, no justification for their existence. It takes huge amounts of energy to manufacture the plastic in the first place, the manufacturing process is dirty (the HDPE and LDPE plants near me are legally allowed to leak the likes of benzine and other nasty chemicals, as long as they don't leak more than so many tonnes in a year). The plastic never goes away. It would be better to reuse bags as much as possible, and better still to use paper bags (I actually remember the shops using paper bags when I was a kid, including paper carrier bags made out of the grade of paper used in potato sacks).
               
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              • "M"

                "M" Total Gardener

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                When 'carrier bags' were first introduced by the shops, they charged for them. I recall debates amongst my mother and the neighbours how they were being "ripped off" being charged for them because, by using them, they were actually creating free advertising for the shop/brand.

                Eventually (and I cannot remember which one) some company marketing person realised they may draw more customers in by offering ..... wait for it! :nonofinger: ..... FREE carrier bags!

                The rest followed.

                So, in tandem with all of that, more and more women were going out to work and, whereas previously women shopped more frequently and would only buy what they could carry in their shopping basket, "supermarkets" opened and the potential to buy more, at cheaper prices, became very attractive. At that same time, more people were buying cars so doing a large shop, in a supermarket, once a week and using the car to transport it home became a more effective and efficient way of shopping and fitting it in with a household where both adults worked :)

                The "supermarkets" became "hypermarkets" and moved to the outskirts of towns/cities and the High Street slowly began to suffer and closures of butchers, grocers, fishmongers, newsagents and the like soon followed.

                So, now you cannot shop efficiently "unless" you have a car - which increases fuel costs and dependency.

                In the past couple of years, you may have noticed that Mr Tesco, Mr Sainsbury and even Mr Waitrose have realised there is a market for smaller stores - effectively becoming the local "corner shop" - to maintain their dominance in the retail sector, and smaller versions of their larger stores are popping up all over the place. Personally, I think they should be banned from taking these prime positions back in towns and give the space to independent grocers etc., so at least I have some choice But, no one listens to me :whistle:

                (Steps off social history soap box :redface: )
                 
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                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  clueless1 - don't get me wrong, I am not for one second suggesting that we shouldn't be looking for ways to reduce energy waste, but why does reducing energy use need to be the only option that gets serious backing? Sure, we don't currently have viable alternatives, but with investment and research we may well reach a point where we have a sustainable energy chain.

                  I mean, why not have solar or wind powered electricity generation that in turn is used to crack water to release hydrogen, and then use the hydrogen to run our cars?
                   
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                  • Jiffy

                    Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                    Money, who is the one to pay for it :mute:

                    not me, or me or me,

                    no one want's to pay for things unless they's a good return for they money :mute:
                     
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                    • Jenny namaste

                      Jenny namaste Total Gardener

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                      Whilst we bemoan the excess consumption of resources, the number of humans being born continues to rise, putting pressure on these dwindling resources. Coupled with the increased longevity of mans' years, things can only get worse and worse - without solutions to our problems.
                      WE MUST REDUCE THE NUMBER OF BIRTHS GLOBALLY OR OUR SPECIES WILL NOT SURVIVE,
                      SIMPLES.
                       
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                      • Phil A

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                        Jenny sent me a file about the oil/car companies taking back electric cars and crushing them. They can't make money out of water.

                        Can only find a german version on youtube,

                         
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                        • Fat Controller

                          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                          But we ARE paying for it now - of the £1.40+ that we pay per litre of petrol or diesel, roughly 90p is going in tax, supposedly in the name of discouraging car use. Of course, given the current financial state of affairs, this is all falling into the one bottomless pit that is the nations finances (aka bankers profit-pot), but if that money was correctly aimed and utilised, who knows what we could achieve.

                          And what about the current fuel companies - if they aren't going to be selling oil products, could they not be selling the alternative fuels? The whole time they have a comfortable alternative not to invest in new technology, they won't bother - but if it was driven and matched with some public finance investment.....
                           
                        • clueless1

                          clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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                          That's a myth. There is a saying. "There's enough in this world for every man's need, but not enough for ever man's greed".

                          Have a look on at this thread to see how significant we really are:
                          http://gardenerscorner.co.uk/forum/threads/how-significant-are-you.50151/
                           
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