Winter Sowing

There is a whole forum in the US devoted to winter sowing -
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/wtrsow/

The principle is that you can sow seeds of various hardy plants outside now, either in the ground or better still in a seed tray. You then leave nature to do the rest.

I tried a couple of years ago with Aconitum napellus, but the uncovered tray got waterlogged and other seeds blew in and grew - it was a miserable failure. I then read a post that said you should sow in a tray and then cover it with a top or polythene bag with holes above to breathe and holes below for drainage.

So I have just had a go with Allium christophii and Allium schubertii. They both need a cold period first and can then take up to a year to germinate. It sounds ideal for winter sowing leave it and forget about it and let nature take its course.

I have some seed left over if anyone else would like to try it. Just send me an e-mail.

Any suggestions of other seeds that could be treated this way?

 

On that US forum they seem to think its the only way to sow anything - some of them behave like zealots about the whole thing. Trouble is they can only understand things as being black and white, life is a bit more complicated than that. I pointed out to one of them that the British climate does not always suit winter sowing. We can have a cold spell, followed by a very mild spell with freezing weather following. I once made the mistake of sowing Morina longifolia in autumn. Mild weather in December made them germinate and all those that germinated perished in the freeze that followed.
A lot of stuff does not need winter sowing, unlike what they would say on that forum. My view is ,why bother to winter sow stuff that is easy to germinate in spring? Some things though will only germinate when the temperature is down to about 40'F. Alliums are in that category and I sow my alliums about now or earlier. A lot of spring bulbs will germiinate during winter so I sow Tulip species such as Tulipa sprengerii. Some seeds need a warm spell first and then germinate in the cold spell. So Hellebores are sown July as soon as ripe and in my garden generally start germinating late December/January. I also found that Meconopsis punicea which is a rare, red flowered alpine specie germinated in December. Quite a few perennials will need cold to germinate . I think Thalictrum is one. Have a look at this US site.
http://hardyplants.com/index.htm
you can get some allium seed from them that you cannot buy as bulbs and they are cheap when you consider the exchange rate. They are a good firm and the seed is good. They are a small outfit and give good service.
I bought from them in the spring and they got snowed under with orders then. Because they weren't as quick as they would have liked then they sent me loads of free seed packets. I am doing an order soon but will make sure my order stays under �£19 - I think that is the figure when customs start slapping on a charge. If I wanted more I would just split the order into two - the postage is reasonable enough.
My seed sowings tend to be in 4 periods - mid winter for stuff like onions, spring for most, summer for hardy cyclamen and hellebores and autumn mainly for meconopsis and bulb seed.
P.S. Those two alliums you have sown should not take that long to germinate...as long as it is decent seed.

 

Hi Geoff. That really is a very good seed site - many thanks - it needs a lot of study.

I do agree with you about that forum, there is so much banter that it is difficult to extract what plants would actually benefit from winter sowing. The same with the 'Growing under Lights' forum. It took a lot of lurking to find out how to actually do it.

My Allium seed is from my own plants, so reasonably recent. But I think I remember you saying in the past that the seed should always be sown fresh. I sowed them one spring, after a cold treatment, along with loads of other stuff. But whilst nearly all my seeds did well the Allium did nothing. Do you know how long Allium christophii would take to flower from seed?

I have never thought about growing Tulips from seed - that's quite an ides. I resent paying out money for Tulips that don't come back in future years. You need a lot of Tulips to make a splash and it can be expensive. Do your Tulipa sprengerii persist. I understand that the species are much more likely to, but I only ever see cultivars for sale - though I see hardy plants sells the seed.

 

I think the tulip species will persist but i am still waiting for sprengerii to reach flowering size ( I just hope I can find the pot). You should be putting your alliums in now, don't wait for spring.
I think A. christophii will take a few years to flower as it is a relatively large bulb. Alliums germinate at lower temps, at about 40' F. so spring is not suitable. I remember germinating A. christophii on damp kitchen roll in a fridge, but I thought it would be easier to just put them out in pots in the winter.
If you want you could try chitting some alliums in that way as an experiment and then transfer the germianated seeds to pots outside hmm possible experiment coming on i think!!!
I have chitted hardy cyclamen but with those I did not use a fridge. With cyclamen you normally sow as soon as the seed is fresh. However last year I tried a technique described by the Cyclamen Society. What you need is somewhere dark, cool and with a constant temperature. I used damp kitchen roll in a cupboard in my cool utility room. I had an old packet of Cyclamen africanum and i got 100% germination. I have also ended up with more Cyclamen hederfolium than i know what to do with. I might experieriment with last year's seed to see how good it is at reviving old seed.
Try the fridge trick with some of your Allium christophii. I think I will try chitting half of each packet that i get in the next week and see which technique gives the best result. I have sent off for some very unusual species and have my eye on some more. Have a look at this site as well. They have a good range of unusual alliums.
http://www.poppyheadsltd.co.uk/4597.html
P.S. that US site, Hardy Plants, is very generous with the seed quantities in each packet.
Growing bulbs from seed takes a few years, but there is nothing to beat the feeling when the first one flowers and you know you have done it yourself, not just bought a bulb from a shop. I have grown lilies as well. Lilium regale is relatively quick and that was one way to get a load of bulbs. Galtonia candicans is also fairly quick. I once collected my own seed from one bought bulb and two years later had a hundred in flower. How much would they have cost to buy? I also have a colony of dozens and dozens of Cyclamen hederfolium. I could not have afforded to buy all those in.

 

Thanks Geoff. That's another amazing site. I have already sown some Allium outside, but I will take your advice and chit some more, and also try to germinate in the fridge. I knew they needed a cold period before germination, but didn't know they needed cold for germination as well.

I think you need as large an area for raising plants as you do for the garden itself. I do agree with you about raising your own from seed, even if it takes some time. I sowed some Tulbaghia violacea three and a half years ago. They are looking healthy, but have still not flowered yet. Also Dierama pulcherimum (but I moved them twice and they do not like being moved). But once you have started the pipeline and early ones are maturing, you can afford to start new ones off and be patient - if you have the space.

 

Just wanted to say that in the last post I sowed some Allium christophii seed a month ago and left them outside with a cover. I had a look today and the first seeds are germinating.

It is counter intuitive that anything should should want to germinate in this cold. What else responds to this sort of treatment?

 

Almost all of the winter growing alliums will germinate over winter. Take care they die down in spring and look as if they have gone. The ones which do this are those from dry cold desert areas where there is winter rain, but little if any snow cover.
Bulbocodium vernum is another winter germinater.

 

Thanks Palustris - I hadn't thought of A. christophii as winter growing. Would that description cover most ornamental Alliums? Many/most seem to flower at about the same time?

 

Certainly the spring flowering Alliums grow over winter. In fact the leaves are often dead and gone when they do flower. Just been looking at some seed grown A. flavum hybrids and they are definitely growing now. The big tall ones are just showing through the soil and A. schubertii are just below it. A. karataviense is not up yet, but that flowers later.
There is a series of books by Prof. Norman Deno on Seed germination and Practice, they make fascinating reading.

 

Just picking up on one point - it's �£18 to be sure of no customs charge. I had to go along to the Post Office and pay �£23.42 last week for stuff that Mr D had ordered, and the sticker on the parcel said �£18.

Oh, and if you remember back to Kedi-Gato's threads about the Indian Red Peach, that's one that's best sown and left outside, and forgotten about..... but I certainly didn't cover them with anythig, just stuck it down the bottom of the garden and forgot about them.

 

You are right, of course, Palustris. I have been planting a few biennials in the last few days. And I have disturbed so many bulbs which are surprisingly well developed - but all below soil level. So often its a case of "out of sight out of mind".

Dendro - there may be an advantage in covering things. The more I read and learn the more I realise that winter wet is as bad or worse than winter cold.