Algarvean Daze

LoL, do you see many agaves growing in the mountains/hills around your way, I assume that it never gets really cold even in those places.
And I know agave is not native but if its planted on the coast, it would be strange that they were not planted further inland.

 

Hi, pete.

No, you don't see agaves int he mountains/hills. It does get cold up there to be honest. Even on a hot summer's day when we go up into "them thar hills" it feels really cool.

You have to think you are quite high (around 1000m above sea level) and it's just trees, Eucalyptus and Pines and Arbutus ... the scent is incredible, can sometimes clear the sinuses seriously!

I only see agaves on the coast to be honest ... I'll ask Stu this weekend and see if he has any comment to make.

You must bear in mind that Algarve is a long thin county running the southern coast of Portugal. Can't remember the distances, but it's about three hours driving east from the Spanish border to the west coast. I am central to the east and west and central north and south and south to me is the coast (about a 20 minute drive) and north are the beginnings of the mountains (about a 20 minute drive). Then we are up into the Alentejo region ... and there are no agaves there .. it's both the hottest and the coldest region in Portugal.

 

How cold is cold, its all relative.
In comparison to me, Norway is cold, in comparison to you we are cold.
I'm just thinking about the minus temps that Steve is saying these agave can take, thinking that minus 18C on a mountain in Mexico may be very different to minus 18C in the UK.

 

It's VERY COLD and VERY HOT in Alentejo and much as t'other half would love to live there ... no way (unless he wishes to go on his own) ... at least Algarve is tolerable in both.

Pete, minus 16C in Mexico is the same minus 16C in the UK, I'm sure. :confused:

 

What I'm saying is that minus 16C on a south facing Mexican hillside would probably warm up much quicker during the day than we would.
The atmosphere would probably be much dryer as well.
And anyway thats a survival temperature, I wouldn't imagine the plant would actually enjoy it, and could well look the worst for wear afterwards.

It cant be all that cold up in them thar hill if you have gum trees growing.
Some are pretty frost hardy but many are not.

 

Can't find temps for that region at the mo ... give me time.

 

Pete's right about the temps in Mexico I have been under canvas at around 10,500 feet stepped out into a white layer of frost, within minutes of day breaking it's gone,it doesn't hang on until lunch time as it can in the uk.

 

Believe it or not the hills of Mexico can get substantial snowfall and rain but it's usually short lived as has been stated.

In terms of hardiness a.neomexicana can tolerate -29C for example and the majority are frost hardy. What most agaves won't tolerate is the cold and damp at the same time. Most species will generally rot quickly under sustained damp and cold conditions.

 

Unfortunately Steve Cold and damp is what we tend to get, add to that a short unimpessive summer and the agaves tend to suffer I find.


Even in my greenhouse I have known succulents and cacti to be literally running in water, it happens on those days when we've had a cold spell and the weather turns mild, the plant remains colder longer than the air and condensation forms on the plant.
Not a lot you can do about it.

 

It's a problem Pete but I have high hopes for a.montana. I know of a nursery in Gloucestershire growing these and 4 other species in a raised gravel bed outdoors all year round.

 

Pete,

Take a look at this article by Paul Spraklin.

http://www.rhs.org.uk/learning/publications/plantsman/0907/agave.pdf

 

Read it Steve, its very interesting and an exciting prospect.
I've been trying to grow the likes of Americana, and a few others that have similar minus numbers attached to their hardiness, outside for years now.
Mostly plants that have out grown pots and been planted out, with some sucsess, but only after very elaborate methods of covering being used and the plant deteriorating rapidly once the covering is not used.

I'm therefore looking forward to growing the seed you sent me, and hoping they really are hardy agaves.

 

Pete, you must have colder winters than here as we have had a cactus bed here in one of our park gardens for fifteen years full of Opuntia and Agave Americana and A. A. Variegata. It is facing east, a few yards from the sea, backed by a hedge thus loosing sun in the afternoon and have no protection of any kind and they thrive.

 

"A few yards from the sea", is probabaly the clue mate.

I've seen them in Hastings, and as I said in another tread, hottentot fig grows in Folkestone along with lamprathus.
But move a few miles inland and its colder most nights.
Did the agaves make much growth in their 15 years, I've seen them survive, but flourish is not quite the word for it. :D

Opuntia, I have grown for years, even surviving the winter of 1987 which was a killer around here.

 

I will have to have another look at them, some of the lower leaves may be soft and battered but thrive? I'll check. I can't see them flowering here but if they survive some of the hardier ones might do better. The Opuntia on our Cactus/palm roundabout(what tw*t thought of putting them together) flowers every year now.