ANOTHER HOBBY AND STEEP LEARNING CURVE

Discussion in 'Members Hobbies' started by ARMANDII, Mar 25, 2014.

  1. Kristen

    Kristen Under gardener

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    If you can afford them Televue is probably the best bang for buck, but you will be paying for superb optics - however, in the case of Naglers and Ethos, the FoV is a lot wider than Plossls (Plossls must have been a brand name way-back-when but seems to be used generically to describe eyepieces with conventional/simple glass arrangement).

    My thoughts are, in case helpful, that when I started I didn't have GoTo so I would use wide angle, low magnification, eyepiece (and I didn't have the Televue Panoptic then ...) hunt for the object (I would pan left to right, down a bit, then backwards right to left ... then start over a couple of times when I didn't find it!). Then try to get it exactly centred and switch to higher magnification lens. Sometimes object was not in view so I'd do a bit more left-to-right and up-and-down, but trying to stay in a tiny area of course as I knew I was close. Then I'd nudge the Dobsonian tube and it would be several degrees off and I would have to start again. I'm exaggerating a bit of course! but you get the pictures.

    After a bit I could use the Telrad on a known, bright, object. Offset using the inner or outer ring, position the bright object "Just to the left and up a bit" and I would be bang on the thing I was looking for. I don't know if you can push-to on your scope? or if you have to "motor to"? and with your tripod mount I doubt you will knock the scope tube as easily as Dobsonian (always happens on mine when visitors "want to have a go" and I then have to re-align it).

    Also, the thing you are looking at moves through the field of view in a minute or two (narrow viewing angle of eyepiece and rotation of the earth :) ). Tracking solves that of course (don't have that on a Dobsonian) but if you are doing it manually you'll need to keep adjusting - although most times you won't spend more than a minute looking at an object, you'll be kid-in-sweet-shop working down your list of Must See objects :)

    Anyways, long story short (ish!!), if you can afford the wider FoV Nagler / Ethos lenses then they will give you a good payback for any manual viewing you do, plus if you look at wide objects (Galaxy / star clusters) they will have the whole thing in view.

    Other consideration is the light gathering they can do - although just going out an buying a bigger scope will fix that :heehee: Televue eyepieces might be better, than other brands, in that regard??

    "No trouble just a little expense" :)

    I went to the local astronomy club. I think different to photography in the sense that Equipment is key, so there was plenty of good stuff. Dunno how many of them would have afforded Televue lenses though ... but its like Golf, folk with little means soften spend a lot on the Kit for their hobby - so you might get lucky. Numerous nerds there, who were a bit anorak, but mine-of-information nonetheless, but the thing that put me off was that they met once a month, and it was a full moon when I went, which would have meant that for the next year, or so, all their meetings would have been washed out by bright light in the skies :(
     
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    • Kristen

      Kristen Under gardener

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      P.S. One thing to consider for eyepieces is the focus-point. There's a technical name for it, but I've forgotten it. You take the 10mm out, and put the 5mm in instead, and the focus is manufactured to be identical, so you don't have to re-focus. Not a big thing, but nice-to-have, so if you buy all Nagler (for example) I think you would get that side-effect benefit.

      Other thing to consider is eye-relief. The more of that the eyepiece has the more comfortable the viewing - particularly if you have to wear glasses for viewing. Not something I know much about, but might be worth asking those two on CloudyNights before you get Credit Card out :)
       
    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      Well. I've been doing a bit of research and looking around on the Net. Telescope House seems to be the cheapest of retailers for identical eyepieces, Kristen. So, since the eyepiece that came with the Telescope is an unbranded 22mm, I've "bitten the bullet" and no doubt my Bank Manager will be unable to sleep tonight, but I've never smoked and only have the occasional bottle of Red so I might as well invest in some good gear and treat myself!! I've bought two eye pieces, one is the Televue Nagler 1,25" 9mm and the other is the Televue Nagler 31mm 2". I've also bought a Telrad Red Spot Finder so, hopefully, they will be here in a few days.

      To be honest the same holds true for photography, the lenses I got in my collection are second hand but absolute top quality and one or two are "legends" and all are high quality glass.

      I do, and no doubt I will be doing the same!!:heehee:

      I bought the Telerad RSF as it has come out top for ease of use etc. The Telescope had had one on it previously but that didn't come with it. It already has the holes drilled in the Telescope to receive it so it shouldn't be too hard to sort out. I can push to on the Telescope and/or motor to where I want so I won't use the Go To until I start to get a bit more experience.

      I believe that Mars will be in Opposition during April and then moving away in May so it looks like I've got the Telescope at the right time!!!


      You bet!!!!:hapydancsmil::hapfeet:
       
    • Kristen

      Kristen Under gardener

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      Top Trumps! Might have to get you to bring them to Shiney's so I can see em :) You;ll have to bring your 'Scope too as my grab-and-go doesn't do 2" eyepieces (and my other one is a bit of a beast to take on an outing :) )

      My Telrad is stuck on - so if you find the holes don't line up for any reason that is an option.

      Cor blimey, "learned-talk" ... someone else writing your posts for you?

      ah! It is you after all :)

      I've never found Mars that exciting to look at ... maybe my optics is rubbish though ... let us know how you get on? :)

      Saturn and Jupiter will give you more entertainment I reckon. And the Moon :)
       
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      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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        They'll be going in the Safe never mind to Shiney's!!!! Hopefully they will be here before the weekend and then I will have a play.

        Well, I'm hoping the holes will align it properly. The Seller gave me a good tour of the Telescope and he knew his stuff so he would have placed the RSF properly......but if not!!! The only thing he didn't do properly was a modification to the wiring of the power transformer but I've sorted that and rewired it.

        Cheeky!! I told you I've been reading, Guv, and learning at the same time. Besides, it was in one of the Astronomy mags and they must be right!!

        I put it in Laymans language so you'd understand it!!:dunno::heehee:

        I'd thought I'd take a look at Mars first as it is in Opposition next month but won't be after that for another 2 years. Plus all the mags seem to be raving about it so I thought it would be worth while. The best time in April for Jupiter is on 1 April at 21.30 BST, so they say!!! Saturn's best time is 30 April at 0200BST, might need a flask of Coffee and a warm coat for that if the skies are clear. They're all my my list of "to do"........as you say it's like being in a Sweetie Shop.:snork:
         
      • Kristen

        Kristen Under gardener

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        OK. I was just thinking that he may have done that a while ago, and sods-law the fixings have changed since. Hopefully not.

        Hahaha! Anytime after dark until Midnight-ish will be fine. Get out there and have a look :)

        You need good "seeing" for Jupiter. When you get moments of still atmospherics you'll be able to make out much more detail - the red spot and all (helps if Jupiter's rotation has it on THIS side :) Ding! perhaps that is why they recommend 01-Apr 21:30 :) Moons probably all aligned nicely too, and none hiding behind/in front :) ). Particularly when you get your nice 9mm Nagler. I've probably got a 2x Barlow for 1.5" - do you want to borrow it? I shan't need it until Shiney's. Might just get you some high mag. viewing of Jupiter (you won't need high mag. for anything other than planets, and mostly the image will just shimmer with the atmospherics, but its worth trying / persisting with Jupiter IMHO). PM me your address and I'll stick it in the post (if I can find it!!)

        There are, no doubt, loads of star maps out there, but Heavens Above have one. You need to teach it your location first, and then it will tell you stuff relative to where you are.

        http://www.heavens-above.com/skychart.aspx

        I have Sky Safari APP on my Phone, which I find good too. There is a freebie (I think) and then mid-range for a quid or two, and then Footballer's Wife version for a tenner. You don't need the Tenner version, and you probably don't need any of the pay-for ones, but I bought the mid-range one.

        http://www.southernstars.com/products/skysafari/

        Ah ... the "free" one is a couple of quid, mid range a tenner, and Footballers Wife version a fair bit more.

        To figure out which of Jupiters moons, and red spot, are visible (and assuming you can successfully convert British Summer Time to UTC!!) then this might help:

        http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/objects/javascript/jupiter

        Saturn is in the sky from about midnight to 5am ... but its very low in the sky at the moment (and therefore probably for the next few years :( ) so depends if you have any tall buildings to the South of you? Worth a look soon after midnight ... "seeing Saturn's rings through an amateur telescope" should be on everyone's bucket-list IMHO :)
         
      • ARMANDII

        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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        Hi Kristen, that's a really great offer especially as I know you're very choosy about such things:love30: But I was on the Net again and did a bit more researching thinking about Barlow lenses and came across a very interesting video showing all types of Barlows without pushing them commercially......it was very interesting. So I've ordered an Astro Engineering AC7301i 1.25" Barlow Lens....like so:

        "British design and manufacture with Japanese made optics

        This is a great-quality 3 element Barlow at any price, but our price puts it at under £60 - the low-profile functional design makes the Astro Engineering AC730i one of the world's most versatile Barlow systems.

        "Feature packed

        It's a beautifully simple design that is ultra-functional! A large (4mm thread) stainless-steel screw holds eyepieces and camera nose-pieces securely in place. Ideally suited to the job of planet observing with a high quality telescope system. The lens works brilliantly with eyepieces and cameras as well - and is the ideal accessory for use with the wide range of short-focus APO refractors currently available.

        Three different magnifications from one Barlow! The adaptable design allows the Barlow to deliver standard 2x and using the lens head attached directly to the filter thread of the eyepiece, a modest 1.5x magnification. And using the supplied extension tube the magnification can be boosted to 2.3x!

        The fully multi-coated three-element optics provide excellent high-resolution and high-contrast images. The inter nose-piece is CNC turned aluminium - the optical barral has a clear aperture over 20mm. The eyepiece holder is machined-turned from solid aluminium and finished in black anodising. Even the dust cap is turned from solid aluminium.

        Supplied in an bolt bottle storage case.

        The AC730i high-performance Barlow features large optical elements (great for use with a wide range of eyepieces) and a fully multi-coated optics for maximum contrast. The 'short' design ensures that it will work with star diagonals. This Barlow is ideal for use with low-powered (long focal length) eyepieces to deliver higher powers, but with maximum eye-relief and viewing comfort. It is also very useful for webcam imaging and other astro-photographic applications.

        Our comment: Relying as it does on the tried-and-tested, and much applauded, optics and aluminium cell design the AC730i Barlow achieves a versatile range of magnifications with a high standard of colour correction - ideal for planetary and lunar observing at an unbeatable price. We like the functional low-profile design and the quality of construction - its an outstandingly versatile Barlow and we recommend it highly."

        So I'll be able to get 3 different levels of magnification and it'll fit straight on a T mount for my camera. But again, thanks for the offer and I really appreciate it.

        Gotcha, thanks for that I that will save me missing things.

        I've downloaded Stellarium [free] from the Cheshire Astronomical Society which once you feed in your GPS location sorts everything out for you and it was a great help, to be honest, in the first couple of days and really helped orientate me skywise.

        I used to have 3 phones [2 company and one personal] but now I have one "all singing, all dancing one for CPS use only and a personal phone that deserves a place in the National Museum, and was made before Apps came into existence:heehee:!!! I use a phone for talking to people and the very occasional Text and limit it's use to that.:dunno::snork:

        Jupiter is on my list but under Mars!!!!.............there's such a lot to see and I can't believe that I've been walking around this Earth without actually realising what's about my head!!:doh:
        Quantity 12345678910
         
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        • ARMANDII

          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          The "Beast" set up in the garden on Sunday ready for clear skies at night time.
          [​IMG]

          The Telrad Red Spot Finder arrived today via Courier:hapydancsmil::hapfeet:
          [​IMG]

          You were right, Kristen. When I tried provisionally to fit the Telrad in the position the previous owner had had it I found it wasn't in a comfortable position for me. So I'll go for the "stick it on" option and I've marked the place where it's better for me.:snork::coffee:

          The eyepieces and Barlow lens hasn't arrived yet though:hate-shocked::cry3:
           
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          • Kristen

            Kristen Under gardener

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            That reminds me that I did a temporary-stick initially, so I could check the placement. Can't, now, remember if I rearranged it and had another go, or if the original position was right. You might want to do a temporary-stick just in case?

            You seen First Light yet?
             
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            • ARMANDII

              ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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              Not even seen the Light at the end of the Tunnel yet:dunno::heehee:

              I've collimated it and had spent an hour or three peering at the skies, but the weather has closed down and the clouds have thickened.


              Yep, I thought perhaps fixing it in position with some Duck tape into what I think is right and if not........do it again.:snork:

              The Telrad came by Interlink Courier and I was checking my e-mail this morning at Birmingham to find one from Telescope House saying they had sent it and it would arrive between 1350 and 1450 this afternoon..........bu*+%$ I'm over 60 miles away!!!:gaah: So I had to phone my neighbour and he took the parcel for me. Interlink even provides a link so you can track the actual courier to see where he is on the map and how many drops he has before you......very efficient!! According to my Neighbour the Courier arrive just after 1350 so the system works!!
               
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              • Kristen

                Kristen Under gardener

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                Clear skies to you :)
                 
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                • ARMANDII

                  ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                  :ThankYou: Kristen, .............but I haven't finished picking your brains and plumbing the deptths of your knowledge yet:heehee:
                   
                • Kristen

                  Kristen Under gardener

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                  You'll struggle to come up with many questions without clear skies :)
                   
                • ARMANDII

                  ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                  Time is on my side, Kristen, time is on my side!!!:whistle::heehee:
                   
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                  • ARMANDII

                    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                    How come you haven't had a decent airing with your new toy yet? I couldn't wait when I had mine :)

                    Why do you think I've been bleary eye'd for the last 3 days????:hate-shocked: I been putting a warm coat on and with a mug of hot tea in reach been sitting down with my eye on the scope looking at Mars and the Moon!!!!:hapydancsmil::hapfeet::snork:

                    Excellent :)

                    Can you find anything, by yourself yet, or are you doing the equivalent of:

                    panning left-to-right, up a bit, right-to-left, up a bit ... STILL NOT FOUND IT ... START AGAIN!!!!

                    as I did for ages when I first got mine?

                    With time comes the skill to "offset" from a known object and find that the thing you want is slap-bang in the middle of the eyepiece :)

                    Have you checked out the stars Alcor and Mizar, the middle star of the "Handle" of the "frying pan" / Great Bear? With good eyesight, and dark skies, you will be able to see a pair of stars with the naked eye, or if not it will probably look "elliptical" or a distorted shaped single star. This was used as a test of eyesight in Roman times when selecting warriors - whether they could see two stars, or just one "blur". They are actually one star a long way away from the other, but neatly lined up when viewed from earth ... when viewed through the telescope you will see the two of them a fair distance apart, but Mizar itself then shows up as a double star (which it really is, I think :) ) so you will see three stars though the eyepiece. Its one of my Sky Tourist sights :)


                    Not yet..........but I'm working on it!!:heehee: I'm trying to keep an eye on GC while jumping from Astronomy Forum Cloudy Skies, etc while also running to the Scope!!


                    If the skies are clear tomorrow night I'll look for them, Kristen. With some of the objects I might need a chart. I'm also going to get "Backyard Astronomy" which is highly liked on the Forums.......all help is appreciated.
                    Trying to think of other good Space Tourist sights that I like :) They are mostly to be seen a bit later in the summer though. Mind you, time for you to hone your skills and by then the nights will be warmer :)

                    Andromeda galaxy
                    Hercules start cluster
                    Maybe have a look to see how many Galaxies you can see in Virgo - there are loads ... but its kinda "once you've seen one" :heehee: but you've kinda gotta do it just the once :) Not sure the best time for that, but its definitely "spring" and you will have to have NO moon to be able to see them (so that sets the date each year too).

                    There's a nice coloured star at the bottom of the Summer Cross too (forgotten its name)

                    And I like the Ring Nebula - not sure your scope has enough aperture for that? worth a try though (not for a few months though ...)

                    For anything overhead my advice is to stick to GoTo. It can be very difficult to locate an object directly overhead "Manually" - although WAY more so with a Dobsonian as its Rotate and Tilt movement freedoms don't lend itself to overhead - the recommended workaround was to put a big block under one side of the scope so that it was no longer overhead, from the scope's perspective!! and then Rotate and Tilt was all you needed :)

                    But your Mount may be much easier in that regard (whn using it in manual mode, for something overhead)

                    Well. it's a 1000mm focal length and f5 aperture so it should be capable of doing the job. The skies tonight are frustrating, one moment clear and the next cloudy.........but I'm getting hooked.:snork:
                     
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