Any business/financial folks here?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clueless1, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    Sorry it took such a bad turn for you but pleased you have found a better job. Your ex-boss needs to be stopped, have you been on to trading standards or citizens advice? Watch out for spending money with lawyers you could end up with big bills and get no-where if you ex-boss is a man of straw.
     
  2. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    John is right. Be careful about throwing good money after bad. If the business is bankrupt and there are no assets you won't get anything even if you get a court order. It sounds as though there are no, or very little, assets that belong to the company.

    There are different situations depending on whether it was a limited company or not. If it was a limited company you will have no ability to call on his personal assets (it almost certainly would be a company limited to a miniscule liability)unless it can be proven that he knowingly and fraudulently filtered the money, or assets, from it and it seems from what you have said that the company didn't own a lot of the assets anyway.

    You have no argument if the business has gone down because of poor management or the effects of the economy. Even if he got you to continue working whilst knowing the business was failing he could argue that he thought that it would pull out of its problems.

    If it was a private business (sole trader) then you may have a call on his assets for what he owes you. It would depend on how much the business was in debt and the taxman has first call on his assets. If he was a sole trader he is likely to try to make an IVA (Independent Voluntary Arrangement) we means that he may be allowed to start to pay bakc only a small fraction of what he owes. In practice this generally ends up with him paying that small amount (if you're lucky) for a period of time that will not get you much money back. Don't pay much at all to a solicitor for advice that is not going to get you a return.

    Try talking to CAB first. Trading Standards will not be interested if the company has already gone down the pan and even if it hasn't, and they may be interested, they don't do anything to help you get your money that is owed. They only work on trying to stop him doing something that is wrong or getting him to put right things that are wrong. Lost wages don't come into that category.
     
  3. clueless1

    clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

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    Thanks folks. I won't be spending any money pursuing this, with the exception of even having a solicitor send an initial letter, just so he knows it is or real, or paying the fees for the small claims procedure (I need to look up the financial limits on the small claims cases).

    At this point I don't really expect any of us to get our money that we are owed. Nor do I want revenge, because strangely I don't feel bitter. I guess I must value the lesson I've learnt. My main goals are damage limitation, and to prevent him from doing the same to anyone else. The damage limitation bit comes from the theory that he has listed our (unpaid) wages as company expenses, and therefore when the tax man realises there is a discrepancy, they might come after us for unpaid tax and NI if they believe we've been paid. If he hasn't fiddled the books then good for him, he'll be safe from jail, but I still want to try to ensure that he doesn't rob anyone else. To that end, getting HMRC to take an interest might end up with him being banned from being a director for a while (I think it is six years if you run a limited company into the ground with negligence).

    The legal action has started in the sense that he has been given a deadline to produce a satisfactory response before we apply to the court to hear our case. Some of us have had the displeasure of having to take action before, so we'll manage ok. We're acting as a group too, which will add weight while reducing cost.

    I must say, and I've told the boss this, that I really don't want it to turn formal. My colleagues are less tolerant, and want to nail him to the wall. I'm hoping he sees sense before it gets that far.

    It may well be that he is genuinely struggling, and trying to sort things out, but he has told so many lies and made so many empty promises it is nearly impossible to believe anything he says now.
     
  4. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    It's such a pity that this has happened. As you said, it is possible that he has genuinely been having a struggle trying to keep the business going but that doesn't excuse telling lies - although it is sometimes necessary to not let anyone know how bad it is getting as, if the word gets out, the business could go down the pan immediately.

    It could simply have been lack of capital - this happens fairly often in businesses but that's what overdrafts and loans are for. Unfortunately, banks have been cutting down on assisting buinesses :mad: - which, as far as I'm concerned, is why they are there.

    I don't like the fact that he has shown you all as having been paid. It could be that it was entered in the books and then the bank wouldn't let him have the money - but it sounds a bit dodgy. Were you normally paid in cash or was it paid into your bank accounts? If it was normally into the bank and you didn't receive it then you have plenty of proof for the taxman. If it was by cash then the withdrawal from the bank of a large amount of cash would show on his statement. In that case I guess he would have misappropriated it. The taxman should be able to investigate the possibilities.

    The small claims court limit is £5,000 but if the case is very complicated then it could be referred by small claims to a different track. The maximum court fee (for a £5,000 claim) is £120 but is less if your claim qualifies for a Money Claim Online - read here:-
    Info about - County court bulk centre - money claim online

    Good luck with it :dbgrtmb:
     
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