Are some plants bred to prevent propagation?

I have had a Google and can see about 4 ways for a company to protect its rights.

1) Produce a unique strain of say a cereal that is sterile. You don't need any protection from the law on this one. The sterility does it all.

2) Produce an F1 hybrid with unique properties. Again you don't need any protection from the law as JWK says the properties will only last for the first generation after which the seeds will not come true.

3) There is an international agreement TRIPS, which says that every country must have a system of protecting Plant Breeders Rights, although the details may vary a bit from country to country. But built into this system are some exemptions. Farmers are allowed to collect and use their own seed, but are not allowed to sell it. And However, the protected plant can be used for non-commercial acts (provided they are done privately) and for experimental purposes without infringement. I assume that means propagation for private use.

4) Plant Patents. This is the patenting of a plant under the same rules as other patents and appears to be stricter that Plant Breeders Rights, which was designed to be a patent just for plants. Apparently PBR's and Plant Pattents are sometimes at odds with each other.

 

Sorry guys - my fault. These are the aforementioned labels.

 

I'm sure anyone can propogate any plant at any time BUT only if it is for your own
personal use, if you try to sell cuttings you would be in big trouble.

Pete

 

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Me, I don't do illegal downloads or copy music off the net, but I do copy music CD's that I own, as backup,just in case.

The big publishing corporations are backed up with the full force of the law worldwide, when it should be nothing to do with governments, let the greedy Bs do their own dirty work.

It is our language and our alphabet, free to everyone, that they have highjacket in the first place, if they want copyright, let them invent their own language and alphabet then it would be exclusively theirs!

Just because they put words in a certain order is immaterial to me!

If they put plants out for sale and I pay good paper pounds for them, I will and most certainly do propagate them, :p to them.

No white flag this time.


Ps, see you all in Gloucester goal!:gnthb:

 

JWK - it's all very interesting, and PeterS summary of plant breeders rights and F1 / sterility is pretty much on the mark.

BUT, I'm still sure I remember my tutor saying that some nurseries have some sort of way to actually stop vegetative propagation, or at least make it harder. I must've been dozing and dreamed it!

 

Hm, could it be something to do with artificially added auxins? Gibberellins? Is there a botanist in the house?

I might email the RHS or someone with this one - will report back!

 

OK, a Principal Horticultural Advisor at the RHS tells me that it "does not quite ring true" that plants can be treated to prevent propagation.

So I suppose that is that. I must've been dozing in class again!

(though I still have a slight nagging feeling there's some truth in it...)

 

Thanks Andrew for contacting the RHS. I suspect what might have have been mentioned is that some time ago there was much talk about Monsanto trying to do that for crops - ie make the seed sterile.

But I am still not sure in my own mind how you could ever produce a plant that couldn't be propagated somehow. Surely it would just die out. Sterile F1 seed must be the closest thing, but it would be very expensive to produce on a large scale.

 

I presume Andrew you are referring to vegetative propagation as opposed to seed.

But surely for this to be possible the actual plant would have to have the non rooting capability in its genes, which as Peter says, would mean the plant would eventually die out.

Quite a few plants produce sterile seed its not a new concept.

 

I think there is a big distinction between garden plants and commercial cereal crops.

As Pete says there are quite a few garden plants that are sterile, but they are perennials and can be propagated by division or cuttings. There is little point is producing a garden plant that cannot be propagated, as there are so many alternatives that people could easily bypass them. And garden plants are not driven by economics. Some people will pay £10 for a plant that might be offered elsewhere for £! - its driven by whim not economics.

But cereal crops are quite different. They are driven by economics, meaning that people won't use an alternative if the sums are wrong. Also cereals are generally annuals and so can only be propagated by seed. So I think that the big boys like Monsanto are trying very hard to tie this market up, but are leaving garden plants to the little boys, who don't have the money or knowledge to go far down this road.

 

Peter, I may be wrong but it seems to me that there might be some wisdom in buying fresh seed every year, whether is a commercial crop or just a garden plant.

I know there are those that swear but their own collected seed and have been doing it for years, but I'm not sure its a good idea.
The actual genetics, of which I understand very little, seem wrong to me and new blood is requred from time to time.
It reminds me of those poor unfortunate highly bred,(interbred), dogs at Crufts.

I dont know much about Monsanto, I thought they made polystyrene ceiling tiles in the 70s.:D

 

Pete - One of the things I enjoy about this forum is that even when people on the forum are not sure of the answer we are encouraged to learn more by thinking about the subjest and Googling it.

You are certainly right about the need to improve seed quality by buying new seed. But I found this http://www.grain.org/seedling/?id=343 which is a bit long - though I found it most interesting. In short it says that Farm-saved seed is still used widely in Europe, for example in France accounting for 50% of self-pollinating crops. It also says that in France (and other countries will be similar) there is great pressure by seed companies to have laws passed that give them a monopoly. For instance farm-saved seed needs to be sent to a specialist seed cleaner before it is used, and in France the seed companies are trying to get seed cleaning made illegal.

There are clearly a lot of very dirty tricks being played by seed companies, and it seems that their preferred route is the law, rather than by developing a clever product. And they appear to be supported in this aim by governments, which are generally business rather than farming friendly.

Monsanto was and is a very big chemical company, similar to ICI - and yes they probably did (and still do) make ceiling tiles. But about 20 years ago it started to specialise in seeds by buying up a large number of seed companies, and doing research into GM crops. There was a lot of talk at the time about it striving to get a stranglehold on worldwide seed production, and one method that was discussed was by developing a sterile strain.

 

I am searching without much luck, to answer

Last year I bought from HB two pots of a bright red flower that looked like a 12" plant pot with a rich red solid football on the top (actually it was twenty stems of what could have been geraniums You could not see the leaves just the flowers
They had a label on them produced by a Dutch company, who had the sole rights and they would not propogate if anyone tried, they were a new breed and only this Dutch company produced them
I have had a quick search of my shed, and can not find the labels just the two empty pots
There was a big spiel on the label of how they were the only people in the world that could produce these Damn it is annoying me now, because I know I read it up, confirmed on google at the time

Jack McH

 

Think I saw something like that on Surfinia trailing petunias, but had great success taking cuttings from them.