Brexit -am I stupid or what

They said exactly the same thing last time - and they caved just like always!

 

Sorry for my late entry in into the thread. Been out of this thread for 5 days or more due to being "slightly off colour" and unable to take any notice of what has been happening in Parliament and GC, so I'll have a litte browse through and try to catch up.

The UK does have a vote on a BREXIT agreement, Parliament has voted against the one the EU wants. The EU regards that agreement as a "done deal" while refusing to recognise that May had to take it back to Pariliament for ratification and it was not ratified and so was only a "done deal" in the eyes of the EU. The UK is not on trial with 27 members having their say while the UK stands in the Dock, it can, and has said No to the present deal. Where the tricky bit comes is where the UK Prime Minister has, technically, the power to veto, at a meeting with the EU. asking for an extension where no Political Party, not just Boris and the present government, has a viable plan to present to the EU which is refusing to change it's stance of only recognising the deal that they want which includes a Back Stop, which will keep the UK in the EU until the EU agrees to releasing the EU from it...........which is not likely to happen for several years, if ever, in my opinion, for what it is worth, is that the Prime Minister does have constitutionally have that Veto power. But, due to the lack of precedence, it is open to interpretation as is Members of Parliament making up laws to suit their own interest rather than the UK's. and therefore pushing the bounds of the Constitution. Parliament is suspended until the Queen's Speech on 14th October, which leaves 17 days of more attempts to stop a BREXIT of any kind.
In this country we use, mainly, two kinds of Law and Legislation, Criminal and Civil, which is updated with more amending legislation as circumstances demand. However, there is now a third category of Legislation that has surfaced that is a very questionable, murky, undemocratic, although within the Constitution, where what we still call Members of Parliament can pass legislation against each other. That category has always been there since the days of Cromwell but has been little used and has very little precedence to use as a measuring stick in a Court of Law. As we have seen there have been quite a few, well funded, attempts in the Court to stop this Government from Proroguing Parliament until 14th October........and all have failed. So, as all legislation passed in Parliament is subject to challenge and "testing", the legislation to make Boris ask for an extension with the EU can be tested. Should a challenge of the Legislation been taken to Court on the grounds that Parliament itself recognises that it has no plan, viable or not, to have grounds to ask for an extension then another time delaying "Can of Worms" is opened. The legislation for stopping a No Deal Brexit is more of a gesture as should the UK reach the 31st with a new agreement or viable plan then, if the EU is not asked for an extension, or if asked and refuses then Article 50 is triggered.
So it could go right to the wire, where Boris refuses to obey the Legislation to ask for a extension, as he has said openly that he will do, then Parliament will be even more chaotic than it is now.............it's going to be interesting to watch.

 

Isn't the british legal system wonderful.

 

After a couple of decades consulting in it the answer, Loofah, is £$!!*&, NO!! But it is better than most other countries legal system. Our problem is that the EU has overlaid and suppressed UK law with a flood, over the decades, of it's own legislation. Once free of foreign legisation from an unelected body then we can sort things out on our own.

 

So in 100 years or so...

 

Oh, and I;ve just seen Bercow is departing

 

I didn't know you were an Optimist, Loofah

 

Yep, I watched him announce his leaving.........I had to reach for the bucket as the accolades, praise, applause, reached such levels of hypocrisy, lying, two faced homage made me feel overwhelmingly nauseous, while all they've wanted to do over the years is to..........



Labour and the Liberals gave him a standing applause because in the BREXIT saga he has neither liked May and detests Boris and his Cabinet and given them more leeway for time to make motions that would, as a Remainer, suit his purposes. He, like many of the others that have stood down, will not have to go the the Job Centre.

 

Lindsay Hoyle Deputy speaker could be the new one

 

Aside from the fact that they will need to complete some paperwork, they will still be able to do all of those things. If someone wants to study and work in a foreign country and are unable to complete a process of documentation, then bluntly they are not suitable to go. I can also agree with the sentiment that leave voters are being painted as the cowboys in all of this (including the likes of BBC and Sky), and remain voters seem to believe they are wholly the good guys. The fact that those same good guys are running around the streets, hurling abuse, and threatening people seems to be conveniently missed.

 

I think "fighting" among ourselves is a mistake whether we want to leave the EU or not as it only adds to the confusion and chaos of mental logjam without achieving anything. One of the problems to my mind is that the EU has managed to convince a lot of people, not only in the UK, but in other countries that they can't live without it, that they will lose the ability to travel, to have medical services, will be thrown out of the country where they are residing and have businesses. I don't believe such a thing will happen, or is even being contemplated within the UK, so why do people livng abroad think it might happen to them?, is the EU so rule ridden, bureaucratic, that it has forgotten the Human side of politics?.
Politics are a state of mind, we create the borders, we create the rules, we create the paperwork, we create the problems and the bureaucracy that threaten peoples livelihood... not the borders........and when a bureaucracy becomes all powerful, changing from a Trading Organisation to a Political Animal then it changes from being meant to improve Life and prosperity between independent countries to one which decides how a person can work, live, how their country is ruled by an non elected group of officials and held "prisoner" by the huge debts that shackle them to the EU then something is wrong.
I understand how, and why, people living and running businesses are feeling angry and frustrated, they fear the worst and no one should be living in fear but perhaps the spectre of a damocles sword of being a immigrant in a foreign country will always be there as the International Political world is always swirling and changing, and perhaps they are more vulnerable to Campaign Fear. But perhaps., (and I apologise if I cause offence), they use their fears for the younger generation as a unintentional cover for their fears for themselves.
Leavers are often accused of being reckless for even contemplating leaving the EU, Deal or No Deal, of leaving the "Safe Haven" of the EU and driving, like a Lemming, over the Cliff of Uncertainty, into trading. financial and political disaster. Whereas, I think Leavers can see the increasing dangers of losing their political, trading and financial independence, and becoming absorbed in a political organisation that wants to create an Empire/Federation and becoming unable to make our own National Decisions as a free and independent country making our own mistakes and instead suffering those of the EU..........and History has shown us what happens to them..........in other words this is more than our children being able to travel freely within Europe, it's about our children being able to travel freely in the world as independent citizens.

Sorry for being longwinded......I need a Mug of Tea and an amble around the garden.