Brexit -am I stupid or what

BBC Parliament is interesting, if quiet at the moment - I am very, very intrigued by the proposal for a debate on Labour's new policy to have quite literally no immigration controls, to allow anyone and everyone from anywhere in the world free access to the UK, free access to our healthcare system, free access to our benefits system and also free access to vote!

Personally, I would much rather see them become a UK citizen first, and to have at least some degree of control on the numbers of people that do come here.

 

It seems to me, Sheal, that Labour under the control of the extremists are turning more and more people against them and in a General Election would come behind the Liberals.

I don't think anyone in the Gang has ever thought that, Sheal.

 

I am quite dismayed that in some ways I have paid in toward the Labour party arriving where it has today - I pulled my TU membership in June after seeing a fairly elderly chap getting hauled to the ground when Donald Trump visited the UK, and it was done by people attending a march that was arranged by the TU I was a member of in conjunction with the Labour party.

I have, for my entire life, considered myself to be centre-left, but quite suddenly and as a result of choosing to vote Leave, I am apparently considered to be not only right-leaning, but even extreme right. As mentioned before, I have seen fellow Leave voters called Nazis, facists, racists, extreme right propagandists, White Supremacists, Putin's Little Helpers, too stupid to know what we voted for, to stupid to vote at all and so on.

I am happy to be corrected on my history, of course, but it is my understanding that the Nazi party was a socialist party, and their leader Adolf Hitler got into power as part of a caretaker government, and they then subsequently went off down the path that they did where they were essentially trying to take control of the whole of Europe (and more if they could); furthermore, when votes went against their narrative, they ignored the result and pressed on regardless.

Today, we have what started as a trading bloc now taking parliamentary control over member states and taking more and more control of Europe and disguising that under the heading of 'ever closer union', we have calls for an un-elected 'government of national unity', we have a parliament that is incapable of carrying out the instruction given to it at the ballot box, we have elected members of parliament willingly going against the majority of voters in their constituencies and the manifestos on which they stood to be elected, and we have elected MP's openly stating on broadcast TV that they would not accept the result of a second referendum if that result was remain (Jo Swinson being one). We even have a party which has declared that if they are elected, they will simply revoke article 50 and disregard the vote of 17.4 million people of this country. We have Labour activists, the related 'antifa' mob and groups such as extinction rebellion that are shouting down others opinions, battering people in the streets and brainwashing our children into believing their narrative; it is probably best that I don't even get started on the subject of people (especially children) being allowed to 'identify' as a different sex, or something that they choose to make up; don't get me wrong, if someone is trans-sexual or wishes to change their sex, then that is up to them - but that is a matter of privacy, and we certainly shouldn't have children making decisions like that. The trouble is, God help you if you go against these narratives as you will have one mob or another on your back, baying for your resignation or battering you in the street. Funny how those who claim to be so Liberal seem to be so intolerant.

From where I am sitting, it is not I who has moved to the right, but simply that the left has moved much, much further left.

For the record, I don't care where someone comes from, the colour of their skin, their religion, their age, their sex, their sexuality - none of it matters a jot. If people wish to come to the UK and live and work here, they are welcome to do so, and I strongly believe that they should be able to practice their own traditions wherever possible as long as they are legal and do not disrupt others. I do, however, also strongly believe that there should be a simple numerical limit on the number of people we can accept, and that the limits should be variable to allow infrastructure (housing, water supply, drainage etc) to keep pace; I equally believe that the traditions and values of this country should be upheld and be something to be proud of - if that makes me a far right racist, then so be it.

Are there racists who are leave voters? Yes. But they exist on the remain side too. Are their nutters on the leave side? Yes. But they exist on the remain side too. Are there extreme right wingers on the leave side? Yes. But they exist on the remain side too. I could go on.

As I have said before, and only going by snippets I am seeing and reading around the internet, I do genuinely fear that things will turn very, very sour if our political classes do not take their heads out of the sand, and do what they were requested to do at the ballot box. If they fail to do so, I would say it is the end of democracy as we know it, and there is likely to be direct action taken of some variety or other.

 

Oh, me too please! But could we make it two hours around 11:15? The rugby's on y'see and...

Boris used no language or inference that hasn't been seen before in that room. The place is world-renowned for their caterwauling, bluff repose and general pomposity in deliverance of an argument. What's different now is the power of social media and the immediate response from the public. It's as if the general public can't tell the difference between voting on pop idol and the importance of debate in parliament. It's making all the MP's act in a very 'oh I'm offended!' manner. Well, I find that offensive in itself and they can damn well go jump in a lake for all the good their doing.

Imbecilic Corbyn. He can't make a decision on anything so he lets everyone in and thinks it's genius. He won't answer a direct question, he can't decide for himself and comes across as a very shady man indeed. No way in heck I'll bring myself to vote that man into office but he'll get booted out soon anyway (being too blind to his own incompetence to resign)

Completely agree with Mike above - Supreme Court should have toed this into the long grass but there we go - the influence of popular culture and possibly high powered behind the scene shenanigans. I also agree with Boris sticking to his guns, as did the AG and calls for apology are plain daft to me.

It will be interesting to watch it unfold (unravel?) with it almost being parliament vs Johnson; the absurdity is that they have no other plan. None, they have NOTHING and yet they want to smear and bring the world down around Boris. Surely they realise thy're accomplishing nothing at all? No they probably don't :(

Perhaps its time to remove it from parliament as parliament did to government? They have more or less convinced me they're incapable of doing it so we should remove it. That could only be in the form of a vote and here we are again...

 

Bloody Keir Starmer now harking on about the government whipping up division! Oi, pot! It's the kettle calling!!

MPs return to Commons after rowdy scenes - BBC News

 

Ken Clarke is on Sky News "All Out Politics" saying the same thing. Clarke is, in my opinion, a person who has made millions out of being a Politician/Businness with large international business connections and part of the Establshment that believes the man on the street are rabble rather than people they owe a duty to.

 

And what's all this bs about Jo Cox? Yes it was tragic but it has zero bearing on Brexit and how very dare they start to use her within their petty musings; the opposition is just continuing to try portray the PM in worst light while distracting from their own agenda and lack of plan.

 

The Lady MP who brought Jo's name into the row by shouting and ranting in the House is on TV now and say's that she was highlighting how much danger MP's are now in with death threats etc induced by the remarks of Boris........which, of course, is a load of Tosh. Jo's name should never have been "politicised" by dragging her name into it and I don't think a sincere person like Jo Cox would have approved.
The MP's, yet again, are screaming about the way Boris has spoken in frank and direct language to them which we understand but they find truthful and because of that, Offensive . They were shouting "Liar, Betrayer, Cheat, etc" and worse at him and at no time did Boris flinch but he kept calm and spoke about the situation in the way Brexiteers think of the present refusal of MPs to honour the Referendum and the whole public's deep contempt of them. Boris speaks bluntly, but without using offensive language, which the rest of the House did not, and echoing what the man on the street is thinking and saying........and the MPs have lost any connection with the man on the street by retreating to the isolated and privileged world of Parliament. It was shouted in Parliament that Boris was the problem in the mental lockdown of Brexit but, in my opinion for the last 3 years it has been the MP's ignoring and not honouring the results of the Brexit Referendum.

 

I wonder what they'd all say if Boris came in, gave a big sigh and said 'Alright, I apologise for my language that has been interpreted it the way it has. It is clear you are against a no deal Brexit - now, today, what is YOUR detailed plan to secure the deal?'

Red faces all round... and I guarantee that they'd continue to argue amongst themselves and never give the plan (because it doesn't exist)

 

I think whatever Boris had said or says it has been, and will be, interpreted negatively by all the MP's who oppose BREXIT with or without a deal no matter what he says, Loofah. The Newspapers and TV media seem to be concentrating, negatively, on the way Boris has spoken bluntly but honestly in Parliament, while the way the MP's behaved, screaming insults and oaths at Boris appears to have been brushed aside. The fact that he is using frank, clear, understandable language rather than the usual vague, Parliamentary deliberate Mumbo Jumbo is plainly alarming MP's as they usually only hear that from the man/woman on the street who they can patronisingly agree with, and then thinking "what an idiot".