Brexit -am I stupid or what

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by wiseowl, Dec 10, 2018.

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  1. SimonZ

    SimonZ Gardener

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    [QUOTE we would have to stay within the EU under the rules agreed in the deal.. [/QUOTE]

    When you say "stay in the EU" though, presumably it would still be officially referred to as Brexit, and Brits would lose their EU citizenship etc? We would no longer be a member state?

    Also, if Parliament rejected the deal, how could we operate under its terms?
     
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    • ARMANDII

      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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      No, Simon, the deal is that until we negotiate a trade agreement with the EU that would bring the Backstop to an end, (which is a impossible task as the EU has not and will not agree to the UK and NI leaving the EU without a hard border coming into effect in Ireland). So, we would still have to comply with the EU rules and regulations, be held to account by the EU Court of Justice, and still have to allow free access through our borders to all EU members, while still paying an undisclosed amount of £Billions to the EU pot.............all that until we come to that impossible trade agreement that would bring the backstop to an end. That is why, knowing that, the EU will not agree to the UK having the right to decide unilaterally when to leave the EU, leaving the UK locked in trade talks with the EU for an unknown number of years trying to find a mythical, and miraculous, trade agreement where the EU would be satisfied enough to agree that the backstop is no longer necessary letting the UK operate independently and under WTO rules.:dunno::doh::wallbanging::coffee:
       
    • SimonZ

      SimonZ Gardener

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      [QUOTE to all EU members[/QUOTE]

      That's all I'm trying to establish - would we be classed as one of those EU members? Would there still be 28 member states, or 27? Would what you describe above, if implemented, be referred to by Mrs May as "Brexit" and recorded as such on the statute books? I quite agree it would be Brexit in name only, but is that what would happen? Or would we effectively be numbered among the 28? I keep hearing Leavers arguing that the deal "kills Brexit," while Remainers want to quosh the deal in order to prevent Brexit as well - they can't both be right.
       
    • NigelJ

      NigelJ Total Gardener

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      Come 1st April 2019, unless we revoke Article 50, there will be 27 members of the EU. We will have no say on what happens within the EU, outside normal diplomatic channels. How much we will have to comply with EU rules etc is what the Brexit agreement lays out.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        Well, just watching the news this morning, and I see that Donald Tusk gave a press conference last night stating that there will be no further negotiations on the agreement; bearing in mind that they will have been watching the news, they can see the turmoil in the UK, they know for sure that her deal will not get through.

        It seems abundantly clear to me that the EU are banking on it not getting through parliament (with Theresa constructing and agreeing to the deal with the EU, knowing full well it would fail), and us all being sent back to the polls having had the fear of God put into us to make us behave ourselves and vote to remain this time around.

        To me, Tusk (odious little git that he is) has given us the EU's answer, and it is the answer we have had throughout which may as well be F Off.

        Well, yet again, I would say that it is time they got a dose of their own medicine - tell them to F Off, and tell them they can sing for any future payments from the UK; oh, and tell them that as they have blown any chance of a deal out of the water, we are out without any deal.
         
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        • HarryS

          HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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          This tactic may work in a pub fight , but when you have a nation of 65 million peoples economy to look after , a more pragmatic and diplomatic approach would be advisable.
           
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          • shiney

            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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            'Please have conjugal rights elsewhere.'

            Is that what you mean? :heehee:
             
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            • HarryS

              HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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              That is a very polite way of putting it Shiney :snorky:
              Like FC and others I would never tire of slapping the odious duos cheeks , but that doesn't pay the bills .
               
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              • Loofah

                Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                I just can't see a 2nd referendum happening, it would be counter to all things democratic! The precedent it would set would be catastrophic and the government, even on it's knees as it is, would never accept that it ballsed up so badly it now needs the out of a 2nd vote. May won't call one and as they shot their bolt already on the no confidence vote (I said the timing was wrong!) there's no-one else to do it unless Corbyn calls for a parliamentary no confidence (I think that's the right term) vote in which case general election-tastic but I still don;t think the original referendum result would be turned over.
                 
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                • wiseowl

                  wiseowl Admin Staff Member

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                  I am and always will be a remainer but lets do the job properly :smile:

                  Good morning all this scare mongering about if we come out with a no deal,lets just get out of it and see,then we shall be in a much better place to negotiate from and then they will come to us:paladin::old:

                  Yours from North Kent
                  the best form of defence is to attack:smile:

                  UK-BREXIT-and-EU.png
                   
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                  • Loofah

                    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                    Do unto others before they do unto you!

                    Agree Woo, time to cut to the chase and be on with it all.
                     
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                    • WeeTam

                      WeeTam Total Gardener

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                      The time for talking is over imho. Its clear the Eu want to punish Britain, thats fair enough.

                      We leave,we take our money with us,if we dont trade fair enough. We are getting kicked out of Europol,Gallileo,and the Eu want there own army.

                      Our Nato budget should focus again on UK defence ( " The Ministry of Defence " ) and leave Europe to pay to defend itself . That frees up tens of billions a year for the UK to spend on its own peoples and infrastructure.

                      Lets move on.......
                       
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                      • Freddy

                        Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

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                        I agree. I’ve said “up yours” a few times, and on a couple of occasions, it hasn’t ended well.
                         
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                        • wiseowl

                          wiseowl Admin Staff Member

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                          Hello Harry well I suppose there's always a first time as they have never looked after the economy before:lunapic 130165696578242 5:
                           
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                          • SimonZ

                            SimonZ Gardener

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                            [QUOTE
                            tell them to F Off, and tell them they can sing for any future payments from the UK; [/QUOTE]

                            This is the sort of approach that frankly terrifies the living daylights out of me. I honestly don't know where to start. If international relations were to be ironed out in such spectacularly simple terms, in the blink of an eye, then the whole world's problems could be solved over a pint by a few blokes in their local pub. What scares me to death is how people on both sides of this infernal debate are so incredibly confident that their side and their's only is 100% foolproof, as if they have tried it before and they have a crystal ball. The truth is that a gung-ho approach like the one you advocate could lead to medicine shortages, the scrapping of decades' worth of cooperative work on education, science, counter-terrorism, and to mass unemployment. Of course, it also may not lead to this. But the idea that Theresa May should turn around to her fellow professionals and tell them to F-off ad just take it from there is...well, I don't have any words for it to be honest. Tell me, where is your precedent?
                             
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                              Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
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