Can time really be a great healer?.

Crikey! that seems very fatalistic. It's true there are too many people, and we all are ruining the planet, but I hope us gardeners are doing something positive (although small). Just 'cause it's broken we don't have to s**t on it as me dear old ma used to say.

 

Hi

I think that the use of pesticides and your attitude to them is partly a generational thing (or years gardening thing). Gardeners who have been used to having a wide range of chemicals to fall back on are much more likely to feel that the chemicals they have used for years are fine. Relative newcomers like myself and Bayleaf are much more used to the idea that we dont need to resort to chemicals to get great results. I personally dont mind losing some of my crop to beasties and am happy to grow by trial and error. There is clubroot in part of my garden so i dont try to grow brassicas there. Im not at war with nature and dont garden despite the conditions, rather i grow what my site likes. Im lucky i dont get carrot root fly but that isnt because i use chemicals its because i take care and dont let the fly in/disguise the carrots. Part of the joy for me is to try new things and sometimes be disappointed and sometimes get a fab crop or show of flowers. My attitude is that unless there is a big advantage to the chemical that you want to use (Glyphosate for example)then why use it.

 

Yes, I agree Mrs Cloudy. It is a generational thing. I've found at college also that the older lecturers have been resistant to alternative methods of pest control, with a bias towards the chemical option. I used to use glyphosate too, but have stopped now as the major manufacturers are responsible for sponsoring genetically modified crops - I don't think theres enough known about these to unleash them into the wider environment - the "exclusion" zones, I don't think are large enough - Maize for instance is wind pollinated and wind is no respecter of a few hundred metres of exclusion! Not to mention the affect on wildlife. Ditto slug pellets - the slugs eat 'em, the birds & hedgehogs eat the poisoned slugs & we lose more creatures. Sorry to blather on. I know it's more work gardening organically, but as you say it is very rewarding, It's like the difference between natural beauty & silicone enhanced/botoxed artificiality. (A few wrinkles here & there are just splendid & can be overlooked)! Oh well must get back to the hand weeding....
Bayleaf

 

There must be alot of old farmers out there then.

 

Yes there are a lot of old farmers, a fact causing some concern in the industry. Of more concern is the fact that they are twice as likely to commit suicide as the general population. With the stress that they can be under I can entirely understand them using chemicals to produce the cheap, blemish free food that the consumer demands, if that is what it takes to stay in business. As a hobby gardener i will not lose my house or job if the slugs get a share of my tatties.
Sorry but gardeners and farmers are not comparable.

 

I thought we were talking about the enviroment. If he sprays his 500 acres, and I dont my little patch, how does that help the enviroment?

 

Its a whole other argument. Id argue that food should be produced in a more environmentally friendly way but that would mean changing consumer attitudes. At the moment the majority of people dont have a clue what is involved in food production and dont care as long as its cheap and always available. Strawberries at christmas etc.

To me this is about taking personal responsibility for the things that we can individually do. I dont know what area of the country is under gardens but id guess that all the little patches add up.

If lots of little people make little changes it will make a difference. Its the same as when i take my little bit of rubbish to the recycling place and it gets added to everyone elses. I also try to buy well produced local food when possible. If individual consumers demand quality over mass production then maybe more farmers will have the incentive to change their production practices too.

 

Dont get me wrong,I recycle when I can, I dont use pestercides more than I have to (I use preditors in the greenhouse but these are not very effective outdoors) I dont like to see wild life destroyed. But we are only tinkering around the edges. Until there are total bans on certain chemicals its all pointless. You could grow your garden organically and the farmer adjoining your land can use far more toxic chemicals than you could even obtain 10 years ago. so whats the point?

 

I suppose you could say the point is for future generations & that attitudes change really, really very slowly. So whilst it may look bleak now, if we look back we can see some progress, and that will continue. (e.g. DDT.) It is a little "2 steps forward, 1 step back". Farming may be ultra commercial, driven by the consumers desire for perfection, but as you say Mrs Cloudy, it's down to education. And if we say "whats the point?", we may as well give up now. It may take many generations before greener growing catches on, but it's worth it isn't it?
Bayleaf

 

Bayleaf & Mrs Cloudy,
I wish I could live in that perfect world, but when I see thousands of houses being built on what was once called the "Garden of England" ie Kent, a channel tunnel rail link cutting across the countryside with wild life unable to cross it.
It makes you want to give up. Perhaps you are lucky at the moment as far as "progress" is concerned in your area, I dont know, but it will come, and when it does you might think like me, perhaps.
I dont think greener growing is going to catch on, not as far as commercial growers are concerned anyway. As you mentioned there is a push for genetically modified crops and they will come, if it makes MONEY.

 

Give me a chance to prove, money won't make me happy.

 

I bet if you won the lottery you'd just carry on working as normal wouldn't you Pete :D

 

You mean money is the clubroot of all evil.

 

Steve course I wood
Bayleaf you said it
As it happens I won the lottery last week..... but you cant do much with a tenner can you?

[ March 26, 2005, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: pete2255 ]