capital punishment or not

Hi, B.M. I thought you were lost on the "UK. Exotics" site and couldn't find you're way back :D
It takes that amount of postings 'cause I'm involved in a serious row about Global Warming with some Twxt on the Physorg site. The "early onset Forgetfullness" attacks me :D

 

Excellent ! before we go any further whats the current concensus on GWarming ? personally I am for it.

Not been on the UK. Exotics" site since August, not been a very exotic year this year. :rolleyes:

 

The current consensus, is, that it's getting warmer. The argument is, what are we going to to do about it and can we do anything about it. Wer're all for it, providing it doesn't stop the Gulf Stream, which has been stopped before.
How the "Smeg" did we get here from "Capital Punishment"? :confused:

 

Jxxxs. I've got to go to bed. Night NIGHT.

 

Unless you are prepared to stand there and inject the lethal dose yourself, calmly without emotion and with a just mind, you have no business expecting a government employee to do it on your behalf B/M I have no problem with that I would do it no problem, we had a case yesterday were a couple systematically beat their child over 2years untill they killed her , he got 12years she got 6years for not stopping him(I could put the gun to the back of his head no problem)

 

I am sure lots of people could Walnut that is terrible. I honestly believe that the state is more dangerous with the power of execution though.

 

I think murder is terrible b/man I think anyone who commits these heinous crimes forfeits the right to live, the choice is you either let them off with minimum sentencing as is currently happening with consequences of them committing the same offences again or you remove them from society, unfortunately that is the world we live in, if the alternative is to let them rot in jail they should be given the opportunity to top themselves then we can have an easier concience by not having to dirty our hands.

 

Hi Walnut, I think where it goes wrong and indeed why these discussions are often lengthy is because the 'real world' and 'policy' are worlds apart.

I am expressing concern at a policy level that the state should have just cause to end someones life. It worries me that because the system is failing, instead of addressing its failings we might seek to fix it by giving away more of our freedom to state control. These laws are for all of us not just murderers, and for me the price is too high.

That doesn't mean I don't share your abhorrence at these criminals, I just think they need stiffer sentancing.

 

I agree with much that Banaman has said. I am not so sure I agree with Walnut when he goes on to say they can go and commit the crime again. Some murderers do but most don't. I thought a lot of murders were domestic, they are the result of domestic violence so by killing them you would not be preventing further murders by that person. Also proper life imprisonment would remove the chance of repeat offences.
I think you have to seperate out your feelings on this. We all want vengeance and some posts obviously reflect this but vengeance does not play a part in a civilised justice system. I don't think the death penalty would deter somebody who found their wife/husband in an act of infidelity because you would not act rationally in such a situation. I don't think it would deter the gun and knife murders of teenagers that have happened recently. It hasn't happened in the states and it would not happen here.
There is obviously a lot wrong with sentancing and not just for murder but I don't think execution is the answer.

 

Hmm! Murder has to be "with Malice aforethought", the infidelity bit probably wouldn't incur the Death Penalty unless someone had to go and look for a weapon to carry it out.
As regards the "States". L. o. Leisure had some interesting things to say about that, on another thread.

 

There is only one answer then, build more prisons.

 

Quite right the charge for the infidelity bit is usually manslaughter,there are a lot more murders committed other than by domestic violence is it 22 youngsters stabbed in london this year not to mention as many shot in and around manchester most of the culprits still free, appart from that what of the innocents killed by feral gangs one quite recently streets away.Pete you are quite right build more prisons but it doesn't look as though it's going to happen it's got to such a state now if everyone was sentenced properly the bill would be higher than running the n.h.s there would be more lifers than enough another burden on the state.

 

Totally agree walnut, its just that we have gone so long now without proper punishment to fit the crime, people are reluctant to bring back the likes of capital punishment.
I only just remember it and for many it is unthinkable in our modern age.
Those who do not remember it always refer to the American system, Death row and all that.
As I remember it was a much less drawn out affair in the UK, and done very differently.
Of course we would probably have to dump the "human rights act" first, that would not be missed and is resposable for many of todays problems.

 

A year or two ago an American economist got the Nobel prize. What he wrote about was that criminals, on balance, are far more logical than we realise. They commit crimes because it pays them to do so. ie sentancing is not a deterant. For instance we hear about someone stealing five million pounds, which isn't recovered. If caught they might get just three years. So heads they win if they don't get caught, and tails they win if they do get caught. Who wouldn't give up three years of their life to 'earn' five million pounds. The Justice system encourages crime - even suppernanny knows that people are encouraged to do things when they are allowed to get away with it.

Mind you murder is rather different, much of it is emotionally driven. But I have heard a professional hit man say on television that as you cannot be executed, it pays him to continue as the risk/reward is in his favour

 

Hmm! B.M. We already allow the state to kill people on our behalf. (Think Armed forces, "Collateral Damage", armed response units etc.) I am old enough to remember the Death Penalty in this country.
By committing murder, you're saying that your feelings are more important than anything else. If you really believe that, you probably shouldn't be allowed to be let loose on the "normal" people, ever, after committing the crime. Locking people up for the rest of their lives is, probably, more cruel than killing them. For that reason, I have no problem with the Death Penalty, as such. What scares me is that a mistake can be made and it's not much use saying "sorry" to someone hanging on the end of a rope!!
In answer to the question "would you pull the lever"- yes but I would want to know that the correct verdict had been arrived at. (In a different life I carried a gun and would have used it, legally, that is)