That's interesting Shiney. Good for them. However even that could cause problems for them. The basis of any religion is ignorance. It is called a Faith because you must have faith and believe without question what you are told at an early age. Once people become better informed and start to question their Faith, or are told to accept some parts but not others, they are in danger of resorting to reason rather than faith. And that is the ultimate death knell of religeon. The Muslim world has the same dilemma as the communist world had. You either keep your population in ignorance to make them retain their Faith, but you risk the population somehow learning about the outside world and then realising they have been duped. Or you allow some freedoms, but this invariably leds to the wish for more freedom and more education, and again the ultimate realisation that they have been duped. Communism couldn't survive, and I doubt that the Moslem religion will either for the same reason. Though it will take a long time.
Hi lolli. What "their faith asks of them?". What faith. Where does that come from. If you never tought a child about religion, would it find it by itself? Instead of "faith" try "brainwashing" it fits better. I went to my-daughters day for the adults. There was a guy trying to explain that everyone was different and you should respect that. Great. Then they got all the kids to get up and sing a song wiith all the actions. Guess what, it was a prayer saying "Thank the Lord". Christians/Moslems/Jades/ what a load of rubbish, think for youselves and don't brainwash your kids
Hi Caj, I don't disagree with you, I may even disagree with religion, I just don't feel intolerant of it-at least whilst it doesn't impose restrictions upon me. It has been a long, long time since I entered a church and I parted ways with Catholicism. The day you were describing, the children were still being told to accept other people and their differences, it sounds evenhanded, and no one was there at gun point. Although I do accept that for "brainwashing" to occur that is hardly necessary. So I don't disagree as such, I just don't feel particularly that it is wrong.
Claire, I think you have put it very well :gnthb: I am also non-religious but am not intolerant of it. The problem with looking upon religious teaching as brainwashing is that it doesn't give any credit for people being able to think for themselves. When I was a kid I believed in fairies because of what I was told about them but over the years I started to think for myself and now I'm not so sure about them :hehe:. The other day someone told me that Father Christmas doesn't exist :( Caj, I'm also not disagreeing with you. :flag: It is just that, in general, I don't think there is a need to be intolerant of religion. I too have 'faith' but it is in my ability to distinguish what is right and wrong within my own moral parameters. Fortunately this happens to fit in quite well with society so I have few problems and a good circle of friends. This may sound a little arrogant but is not intended that way. I just live by my code and am happy for others to live by their beliefs as long as they do not harm others. I think that where we differ is at what level we decide the harm to others begins. A lot of people need their faith because it helps to protect them in a world that is becoming more and more difficult to cope with.
As I've already said, I am a non believer in any of the major religions around today, but if someone wants to have faith and worship whichever god makes them feel happy and loved, that's fine by me. What I do have a problem with is believers trying to force their religion on me and others, because they believe their faith is best and I am damned because I disagree! Christianity has been particularly vociferous in the past (and still is)...Islam is just catching up with what Christianity has been doing for the last two thousand years!!
Sorry. guys That came across as more aggressive than intended. I don't care what they believe in. Just wish they'd stop killing children for their beliefs. :(
Hmm! That's fine YDD. Where, as a child, do you learn right from wrong. From your parents:skp:. From your school?:skp: From your mates? Research seems to show that your mates (peer group) seem to have the most influence. From a religion?:skp::skp: I always thought it wrong to steal but our politicians think its all right as long as you steal within the rules that they set for themselves.:skp: Maggies era showed that "might is right". I despair for our children.
Islam is about 300 years younger as a religion than Christianity is, so I guess it could be fair to say that it could be 300 years behind. If we take what the Christian church was doing as recently as 300 years ago it was pretty nasty. They were still burning innocent women alive for having the wrong coloured eyes/skin/hair or anything else that caught their fancy. In fact I read somewhere that it was common practice for a man that wanted to leave his wife to simply spread a rumour about her, as having her executed as a witch saved him the bother of breaking church law by getting a divorce or committing adultery.
And after they stopped burning or drowning witches it was still easy for a man to get a doctor to commit his wife to a mental hospital - if he had a bit of money to 'bung' the doctor.
I knew this thread would be a longun. I agree with most of what's been said, which I think (obviously,lol) is balanced and reasonable. I am not a racist. I don't care where a person comes from or their beliefs as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. I think prisoners lose the right to fundamental things that we take for granted, like socialisation, tv, games etc. Reduce the sentacing by 80% in most cases, but make them live like prisoners with rehabilitation towards the end. Prison is a joke to most prisoners especially reoffenders. The only thing that annoys me about Muslims (and yes I'm sure that this religion has had more press coverage than others) is the way we are expected to make changes. As has been said, this is Britain and we live (or did) by certain rules. OK alot of them may have been wrong but it is up to the people to gradually change them. A certain part of Newcastle gets its roads closed off at a certain time so Muslims can parade down the street or something like that. Now, what would happen if it was a Christian march? Or a Jewish one? Or any other religion? The councils are spending money building mosques but we do not have nearly enough 'social housing'. Do they build Catholic churches? Christian ones? No. I know I'm very ignorant in many aspects of this so I only speak as myself. As I say, I don't care but I hate the way this country is a joke to others. The Australian PM was great I think, in what he said - no spin there. But then Austrailia has only allowed people in who can contribute for many years. I am not religious but one of my exams at school was on R.E. I did the written on Martin Luther King Jr and the oral was mainly talking about the physiological (? was a long time ago!) differences of races. No religion bashing at all. Maybe that's why I'm tolerant now, who knows? cheers
@Borrows, I think your bang on in your last post. The thing is I've believed for a long time that our government is racist. It is the only way I can find any logic in the way Britain is heading. I know Muslim people, they're ok, they're just like anyone else. I'm sure there are some that are nasty pieces of work just as their are nasty pieces of work in every demographic, but the majority are ok. They didn't make the rules that say we should bow down to their every whim, the government did that. By spending all the taxpayers money on pandering to all sorts of groups (not just Muslims) and ignoring the needs of the majority demographic, it can only lead to growing resentment, as in fact we have seen recently with growing support for the likes of the BNP. The government must know that this resentment is growing, yet they keep fueling it. They only way I can make sense of that is if they want the resentment to grow, and the only way I can make sense of that is that they must be racist but being government they can't get away with being openly so because Europe (our gods) would shout at them.
Clueless, maybe you are right. Being naive (which I get told even now and I'm no spring chicken,lol) I tend to think that what I see on the news or read is true. How stupid is that! I should know better because many years ago my dad got angry at a local newspapers' reporting. He worked for British Oxogen Co., they were on strike and the paper reported that they weren't delivering to hospitals. Totally untrue. My dad was really angry and, being the convenor, contacted them and they had to retract it. But I wonder how many people read the first report, with headlines, and believed it? Why do we not hear about the good things that are happening? I'm thinking about your comments as I'm typing this and think it looks more & more likely. That's bad. What do others think? Could our government be racist? cheers
