Corona Virus Treatment

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by ricky101, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. HarryS

    HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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    I would hope we all don collar, tie and jacket before venturing out to the veg patch ! This is GC remember, and we do have standards :heehee:
     
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    • wiseowl

      wiseowl Admin Staff Member

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      :heehee::heehee:
      portrait-owl-business-suit-600w-411605329.jpg
       
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      • SimonZ

        SimonZ Gardener

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        To put the practicalities into context, while much of the country prepares, reluctantly or otherwise, to enter the new semi-lockdown, my employers are trying to find loopholes that will enable sites to remain open. There has been a relentlessly optimistic "back to normal" narrative since August, at odds with the fact several employees had covid, and one has lost her husband to it. Some people are focusing on individual words in the guidelines and interpreting them creatively. There is no economic reason, as due to the kind of operation we are, we would save thousands by closing through November. Nor is the management's behaviour unjustified - some aspects of our services would be impacted, though others could be replicated from home as they were for several months. It wouldn't be ideal, but it could be done. I stand by my claim that some of the government's wording was vague, there is no distinct definition of "leisure" facilities or "non-essential", and I think many organizations will, rightly or wrongly, be playing by what they can justifiably argue is the letter rather than spirit of the law. Considering the cabinet its self is apparently split on this, I don't think its surprising we are getting increasingly fuzzy messages. In a normal job, anyone under the degree of stress that Johnson, Hancock etc must have been under, now for nearly a year, would have had some respite from it by now and been encouraged to take time out. Its no use people making comparisons with wartime leaders and so on, because in those times the country, not to mention the government, was more united and there were much clearer objectives and known enemies, plus they generally had prior first-hand experience of conflicts.
         
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        • SimonZ

          SimonZ Gardener

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          Just been in consultation with management who are equally in the dark at present. Decisions are being made by politicians external to the day to day running of things, and the wording around "essential services" has caused complete confusion. A glance at social media just now revealed this confusion is now nationwide within our sector. Apparently the authorities have requested a statement from the Cabinet Office to clarify things. Seems my struggle with interpretation was not without good cause, after all.
           
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          • ARMANDII

            ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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            My problem with all this is that, as I have said before and people fail to grasp, is who ever was/is in charge and how united the Politicians were/are, or how many "clear and precise" instructions are issued, someone somewhere will disobey those instructions for whatever reasons they think justify it.
            Whether Politicians were united in WWII or are now is, in reality, totally irrelevant. The Government in WWII was certainly not united, nor was the then Opposition a great support. Churchill, despite the image, was booed and jeered on the Streets when he went to visit bombed areas. Governments, particularly in present times, can only steer the Country and advise while trying to adapt every day to meet the ever changing situation.

            If someone could explain to me how, if we are now using the method of targeting and locking down local areas where high infections and death rates are, how exact instructions, apart from the basic general rules, can be issued by the Government when the best people to decide that are the Local Authorities within those areas, and who have their own pressures and agendas to decide. Internal Cabinet disagreements are political and really don't affect the practical rules being issued externally with a Government strong enough to do so.

            So, to me, in the above we are implying that whatever Government Instructions are issued Businesses and People will find ways to try to get around them and that's partly due to the messages being "fuzzy". Well, we know the first to be true, but my problem with the second is that, leaving the economic issues aside, is really to get the COVID 19 infection and death rates down, Business and some of us ordinary Citizens have to answer the old question of "What part of NO (can we get around the rules this way or that) do you not understand?" And again, the Media and those opposed to any form of Lockdown will either by inexact reinterpretation or deliberate effort cause any clear or precise instructions to become opaque to the General Public.


            Really?, I think commonsense has to play a large part in deciding what is and what is not of either of the above. But, having said that, I give way to any one who can issue a clear precise definition of "leisure and non essential"where some Business or persons in any area will not contest that definition.
            We have already seen in earlier posts where in the simple case of a Plant Nursery selling only Plants and Garden Accessories is defined as "non essential" can be closed but a Superstore will remain open and plants, garden accessories can be bought...........there is, in reality, no "one size fits all" restrictions or messages that will not be questioned by those with an agenda.
            But. while I recognise that Businesses, jobs etc are at risk, and exceedingly more so with a second lockdown, we are merely looking in the Political direction for (a) Godlike instructions which will be understood and followed, willingly or unwillingly, by everyone (b) someone to blame other than ourselves (c) a mental distraction by questioning and criticising anyone attempting to actually impose rules and restrictions on us while not, ourselves, being able to define any clear rules and instructions that would not be questioned or criticised.
            COVID 19 is non political and while, in the beginning we had an excuse of ignorance of not realising how deadly it is or how to deal with it, we do not have that excuse now and yet people still flaunt and question the restrictions.
            While some of us continue not to follow the basic clear, precise instructions that we all know, blame Government/Leaders of any Political colour and complain about the lack of clear advice that won't be questioned by Business or people while, ourselves, not being able to offer a clear definition then we are making the load on our collective backs even heavier.............look across the Pond as that is what is happening there with horrendous results.
             
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            • SimonZ

              SimonZ Gardener

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              We may have a clearer idea of that in the coming hours and days, since as I said above, I understand various organizations and authorities have requested clarity from the Cabinet Office. Those who make the rules and state these conditions should be able to define them to the letter, especially since, like you say, many will choose to twist and reinterpret them at the slightest opportunity.
               
            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              At the very least the restrictions need to be clear, bearing in mind they will be backing it up with fines etc.
              It will be leu I believe.
               
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              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                Whether or not those who make the rules and conditions are able to define them to the letter is more than questionable if, as you say, Simon, various Organisations and Authorities will still question them.....which leaves us in the same position as before:doh::wallbanging:. Local Authorities will, under the local targeting method/ be able to, and rightly so in my opinion, decide to refine those rules and decide what can or cannot stay or be closed. But, yet again for example, there was a difference in the way Liverpool and Manchester defined those that were Leisure and those that were essential or non essential businesses.
                For the Government to define what is wanted regarding clear and precise rules and conditions they would have to write to every person, every business, organisation to tell them what applies individually to them and yet still those precise and clear instructions would be questioned:dunno:
                So by saying, as you have, "Those who make the rules and state these conditions should be able to define them to the letter" seems to ignore that if persons, organisations and Local Authorities will continue to question, defy, ignore them, or criticise them, (as they will), and that will reduce those "to the letter" instructions to being accused of being as "vague" or "fuzzy" as all previous instructions were accused of being. Defining things to the letter does not mean they will be accepted or understood by people not willing to do so.

                [​IMG]
                 
              • clanless

                clanless Total Gardener

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                I see that the Welsh Government are still thinking about how the hospitality industry will re open on the 9th. I reckon they are trying to work out how to stop people who are in lock down from piling into Welsh pubs/cafes etc. on the border.
                 
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                • SimonZ

                  SimonZ Gardener

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                  There is a relentlessly optimistic "back to normal" narrative put forward by many in authority who, safe from the front lines themselves, seem to work on the assumption that because they implemented a specific plan for a defined, finite time period of time, everything should roll back into place once they decide that time period is up. The fact we're heading into the very time of year when respiratory viruses most thrive is inconvenient to them as it spoils the "We did it! Covid is over!" song they are desperate to sing.
                  The above criticism is completely aside from the very real desperation of many businesses and services to re-open for reasons of survival or altruism. I empathise with them, but not with Pollyanna-ish politicians who want to pretend its all over so they can pat themselves on the back and go back to squabbling about Brexit.
                   
                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  Looking at the news tonight I'm getting the same thoughts as me.
                  Shutting shops and pubs, who are not really spreading the virus, while at the same time leaving those breeding grounds of schools and universities open makes absolutely no sense what so ever.
                   
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                  • clanless

                    clanless Total Gardener

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                    I'm not sure that Boris, Trump, Prince Charles or Prince William would agree.

                    It will - lockdown does work - it worked in March - it will work again - how long it takes to work depends on how people react. We had our best chance to beat the virus earlier this year - no lock down fatigue, warm weather and people being paid to stay at home. What happened? People packed like sardines on Bournemouth beach. We could have kept on top of it if people had followed the rules. Social distancing, wearing masks and washing hands, it appears for some, is not a price worth paying to reduce transmission. Blame these people first - the blame does not sit solely with the Government.

                    The coronavirus does not spread itself. People choose to ignore the rules and they spread the virus. It is the selfish few who are making it worse for everyone else.

                    It's not going away - we will have to live along side it armed with vaccines and effective treatments.

                    I'm back down the allotment next Monday - being careful as usual - one bloke there was so frustrated at how some were acting he said "let them carry on - they won't be around for long if they do". It's looking like we will have fierce competition for this years Darwin Award.
                     
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                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                      Just received an email from Notcutts garden centre saying they will remain open during the half hearted lockdown.
                      Seems there are more exceptions than places shutdown.

                      Which brings me to the point of, how is this fair on small independent businesses.
                       
                    • ARMANDII

                      ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                      It's not fair on any business, pete.:dunno: This Lock Down is not a full, total, lockdown and now that local Authorities have been given the ability to define who can and cannot close they will have the responsibility of deciding what is fair.:cat-kittyandsmiley::coffee:
                       
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