Donald Trump.

Discussion in 'The Muppet Show' started by roders, Jan 28, 2018.

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  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      • redstar

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        Has not been "years ago" just happened again last year.
         
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        • ARMANDII

          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          I nearly choked on my glass of the red stuff on reading Trump's reason of revoking the security clearance ex-CIA Chief John Brennan who's a critic of Trump. The Trump's statement claimed that Mr Brennan security clearance was revoked because of his "erratic conduct and behavior"..................does that remind you of someone??:dunno::heehee::loll::lunapic 130165696578242 5:
          .
           
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          • redstar

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            All security clearance should be revoked for anyone that has left a government position. Would think that would have been policy for tons of years. Why, Trump has to even address it, is strange. Should be a policy in place already.
             
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            • shiney

              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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              It has never been standard policy in any western government to do so as the administration has, usually, asked senior people to work in an advisory role. The same thing happens in business as well. Most senior people have a broad and in depth knowledge of the organisation that the current incumbents find extremely useful.

              One large organisation changed their rules so that they could keep me in an advisory post after retiring. I'm still advising them 18 years later as they sometimes need to know the history of certain local events and whether to follow a similar path again. I even still get the local authority occasionally ask me about events and their outcomes going back forty or fifty years ago. It saves them delving into their archives - which aren't always easy, or possible, to search.

              We have other members on here that are in similar situations.

              So the normal situation is for people who were in senior positions to keep their security clearances. Revoking someone's clearance is not a particularly good idea, although on the surface it seems so. They already know 'where the bodies are buried' and are not interested in future security matters. Their in depth knowledge is then lost as they will not be inclined to assist if required. They will, in certain circumstances, be able to work for or advise bodies that are outside of their original position and the revoking of their clearance would be inclined to make them seek out that work. I understand that Brennan has already been approached by some organisations to act as an advisor.

              The old saying of 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' comes to mind. Removing someone from their job and then trying to diminish their reputation in public is bad policy and very childish.
               
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              • JWK

                JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                Throughout my working life security clearance "goes with the job", I get cleared for whatever work I'm doing and when I leave, my clearance lapses. I'm about to leave work for the last time in two weeks and part of the termination process is to formally sign off certain documents revoking my clearance. I am currently working for an American company albeit in the UK so am surprised that Trump's ex-adviser was allowed to keep his. He worked for a government agency, which I have never done, and I'm guessing the rules are not not strictly applied as within the private sector. All private companies dare not take any risks in case they lose contracts whereas the govt agencies have no one monitoring and do as they please.

                Having seen the twitter exchanges it reminds me of children calling each other names in a playground. How very sad that growns up act like that and to think that one is in a position of real power is frightening. Gone are the days when leaders set a good example morally, are the next generation going to think it's OK to act like that? I despair.
                 
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                • Jiffy

                  Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                  I've been to a few places with tight security some which would take over an hour just to get in, one which to this day i can't talk about, but was so tight that every where i went i had to have a staff menber with me, even when i went to the loo some one was with me, hope they got payed well for watching me have a poo
                   
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                  • JWK

                    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                    At the hospice I volunteer at we all have basic DBS clearance, which a lot of member here will have for any charity that deals with children. So visitors have to be escorted everywhere even if they have the same clearance themselves elsewhere. When a contractor comes in to fix the swimming pool, for example, we have to escort them everywhere, it doesn't involve handing them toilet paper but we do have to keep a respectful eye on them. It's the modern world I'm afraid.
                     
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                    • Loofah

                      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                      It's situational. Where clearance is required it's given and when that requirement is passed then it is removed (aside from some occasional clerical errors); a former head of CIA has knowledge that is required for incumbents so he absolutely is required to keep that clearance. Removing it and the unscheduled announcement is nothing more than deflection by Mr T to create a headline to distract from someone else that is grabbing too many...
                       
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                      • shiney

                        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                        I agree. The clearance is for the knowledge in his head, which cannot be removed. There is no need to have physical clearance as the person won't be going back into any of those buildings anyway.

                        To make a point of denigrating someone to no purpose (is there ever any purpose to so do?) is puerile.
                         
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                        • redstar

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                          over the years I worked in many health care facilities, first was a Government funded hospital, then Private Hospitals, then Nursing homes. in all cases I had access to private information about the individual being served . When I left so did my access. As right now, I have access to online government sites of which my input is necessary. When I retire, immediately I no longer can access those sites. Yes, some information of the people stay in my head, but, its my professional obligation not to repeat what I know to anyone. As I told someone yesterday, my husband knows not one name of anyone of my folks on my case load. And that goes for any of my staff and the issues I have with them, the disciplining etc. firing etc. Some days I could be so frustrated with them and love to share, but that does not go to my husband.
                           
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                          • shiney

                            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                            @redstar

                            After you retire, If they asked you for your advice/input about something about which you have a fund of knowledge, and they offered to pay you, I presume you would comply. After all, it's about their own business. :noidea: So although you no longer have physical access it doesn't bar you from using your knowledge gained in their employ to advise them.

                            I agree with you that it was totally unnecessary for Trump to even mention it publicly. The only reason I can think of is that he did it out of spite. Something that should be beneath the dignity of a Head of State. He's entitled to think it, but it's bad form to Tweet it. :nonofinger: He really needs to stop his Tweeting which, sadly, demeans his office and his status in the world.

                            Some of our politicians have a similar problem. They either open their mouths and put their foot in it or they take some action which, on second thought, should never have been considered.
                             
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                            • pete

                              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                              I was once converted to natural gas.
                              Does that count?:biggrin:
                               
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                              • redstar

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                                Actually, @shiney , I take away that "he had to address it" to tell the nation that this practice of still letting former Government official have access was in place all these years. And he Had to clean up yet another issue. This was unknown to the general population that these clearances never go away from folks that have no right to them anymore. Yes, if my company called me and asked me to give my opinion about something I would certainly help them. But that is so different than having access to sensitive materials on government sites. When I have to up grade my cell phone, I have to have a special code to change to the new one and move things over.
                                 
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