Electric cars.

This is where I have problems with some things. Do I believe a lot of the conflicting reports that I get or do I go on the small amount of empirical evidence I accumulate.

Although I have already said that I have no intention of buying an EV for quite some time I still take a peripheral interest in the vehicles. I have a large number of friends and acquaintances and listen to the experiences of those who have EV's.

I have spoken to seventeen people who have them and asked for their experiences with their cars. Most of them have been very happy with them at the start - apart from almost all them saying that they think they are overpriced. A few, who don't have the luxury of living where they can have their own charging points, have said the cost of running the car is a fair amount higher than they were first told or read about and access to enough chargers is difficult. They should have thought about that before buying but they believed the publicity that there would be plenty of charging points opening very soon.

Some, who have had their cars for some time are finding the cars more expensive for servicing than they were told and some parts are difficult to find.

Most of these points could easily be explained by the fact that it is a newer concept so there are teething problems. Unfortunately the aggressive push by the government and the manufacturers tended to gloss over these things.

Now they are finding that their insurance renewal is higher than promised/estimated and above that of their ICE friends. This is, apparently, due to the increased cost of repairs to EV's

To quote from Which?:- 'Ultimately, the cost of repairs means insurers often charge more to cover an electric car, even after taking into account its reduced power and any green discount.'

The Times:- (couldn't read the article but only the headline as they wanted me to subscribe first)
'Battery prices, a shortage of mechanics and a rise in write-offs mean that you may find it hard to get cover at all'

Three of the above mentioned owners have now changed back to ICE but as we live outside of any major conurbations it may have some effect on the availability of EV services.

So, even without all the contradictory information coming out, I find that I would have no intention of buying an EV at the moment or in the near future.

Apart from that I emotionally tend to prefer the arguments of people that express them calmly over those who decry more vehemently (and sometimes unpleasantly) the opinions of the opposing view.

That may not be quite a logical response but it works for me.

 

Not UK, not empirical, not peer reviewed, not even necessarily my opinion, presented without comment, liability not accepted etc etc etc...

 

One that springs to mind is this one - Family 'lose everything' after their electric car catches fire and sets their house ablaze while three children were sleeping in their beds | Daily Mail Online

Of course, this is being quoted with the Daily Mail, so some will likely suggest that it is just a blown headlight bulb and there was no other damage....

 

Other fire data which suggests an 83% increase: - UK EV fires double in a year - Energy Live News

Note - no endorsement or warranty is inferred, not empirical data, not peer reviewed.

 

It that figure just because there's more in circulation now?

 

Indeed - however that works the other way when there are claims that EV's are X-times less likely to catch fire... the data sets are completely different.

 

See, I'm not sure that I agree with that approach to be fair - it would seem that they are paying elevated premiums already and that would appear to be due to increased costs of repair of their vehicle and that is fair enough, but to essentially tax them by stealth... nah.

These same sort of arguments get bandied around with things like diet/lifestyle etc, and to be honest ownership of an EV or ICE fall into the very same. If the fire service has to evolve to keep up with the modern world and if there is a cost to that, then general taxation is where it should come from. Perhaps if government and local authorities spent more time doing what they should be doing and less time trying to dictate to us what we should be doing, we might get somewhere.

 

That lower figure could be because EV vehicles are so much newer and I wonder how the statistics would compare if just taken for only cars bought new over the last four years (or three, or two).

 

I agree that there is going to be a big problem for the government in lost revenue, but that is to a large degree borne out of their own actions (successive governments) where the motorist has been the go-to cash cow. If you stop and think about what you pay out in various taxation, it is really quite remarkable the percentage of your income that goes in taxation and charges. I would argue that we need a much more simplified system, which in itself should reduce the cost of collecting it - put simply, I reckon circa 45% of our income goes in taxation/charges, so why not simply take that 45% at source as a flat rate, but then scrap VAT, fuel duty, council tax, IPT, NI, alcohol levies, VED etc etc. I suspect that sort of idea would be as popular as a fart in a lift, not least as it would show just how much money our governments raid from us.

The other side to that coin would of course be scrutiny of government expenditure, as they blow billions of our money, seemingly with absolute impunity.

In the absence of a wholesale change in taxation, the alternative would be to simply make it impossible to charge an electric car from the 240v home circuits and instead have dedicated chargers, 415v supply, and separately metered - - that way, whatever charge/tax was desired could be applied and would, in itself be pay per mile (use more, pay more); that would require a change of domestic infrastructure of course, but if we are convinced that these vehicles are the future and for the next 30-50 years, then we have to do it.

On the storage/safety side, I think it depends on who is storing the vehicle as to where the costs lie - if vehicle repair centres are storing the car, then the cost is theirs. but if it is the fire service thne that is general taxation in my opinion.

I am absolutely NOT anti-EV.. I am, however, anti-mandating of something that has such wide ranging costs and impacts without fully understanding everything involved and without clearly agreed methods and standards, and without ensuring that the costs involved can be absorbed in the timeframe.

 

Or it could be done in reverse. Instead of taxing at source they could tax at point of sale (i.e. VAT). That would mean you only pay tax when you make a purchase. Those people with higher income and therefore more disposable income will pay tax for it.

Then there would be no need for differential rates of income tax - which would reduce the cost of tax collection. There could possibly be a different rate of VAT depending on the type of sale. This would be done by the business, as it is at the moment, and the VATman just collects it. The rate of VAT could vary from zero for food (as it is now) to higher rates for luxury goods. So people on lower incomes keep all their pay and spend it on what they feel is more important to them.

There could be a sliding scale for things such as cars where a smaller, cheaper car has a lower rate of VAT and a luxury car has a higher rate.

There are likely to be lots of problems with both methods but I'm sure a balance could be struck with either of them. I'm sure I could work it out - if I'm paid enough to do it.