Electric cars.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. Adam I

    Adam I Gardener

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    This is a compressed air battery, they do exist and there are a few larger stations using caves and so on as you say.
    Compressed-air energy storage - Wikipedia
    You can also do it in cylinders but you need a lot of them.

    There are also kinetic energy ones where they spin a chunk of metal extremely fast in a vacuum, and reduce its speed to recover energy.
    The largest scale is using gravity: you lift something heavy (like water!) up into a big area (like a mountain lake) and then let it fall down and recover the energy from the gained kinetic energy as it falls.
     
  2. pete

    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        I'm seeing adverts for a Nissan Quasimodo or some such motor and the slogan says powered by petrol driven by electric, it then says unplugged.

        Is there a point to this, or is it just another hybrid.
         
      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        They were trying to be cute and actually got a ticking off over the original version of the advert, which made the petrol bit a lot less obvious (the inference was that it was an electric car with the petrol bit hidden away in the small print);

        There is a bit of a difference, yes. On most, if not all, hybrids there is an electric motor that provides drive into the vehicle gearbox which is the same gearbox that the petrol/diesel engine is connected to and in turn that gearbox provides the drive to the wheels, so both the electric and the petrol/diesel engine are directly connected to the wheels. The normal mode of operation is that the electrical motor will be used until a certain speed is reached (or the electricity runs out) and then the petrol/diesel engine takes over.

        The CashCow has a petrol engine that supplies electricity to charge the batteries/power electric motors and those electric motors are the only thing that drives the wheels - the petrol engine on it's own is not connected physically in any way to be able to drive the wheels, so is more of an electric car with a generator strapped to it's back.
         
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        • gks

          gks Total Gardener

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          I have been doing a little bit of research to see how the new car market has performing over the years to see if we are being priced off the road, this is car sales in general.

          So I tried to find the sales of 2019, pre covid for comparison, which is not so easy as most of these sites have stopped showing a chart of historical statistics. I could only find a site that gave figures of new car sales up to 2018.

          So in 2018, there was 1,222.849 new registrations in the fleet sector compared to 1,085.381 in 2023, a drop of 13% roughly. Private sales in 2018 were 1,052202 compared to 817,673 a drop of 29% roughly.
          Now when you do an average from 2013 to 2018 the drop of in sales of private cars compared to 2023 is 39% roughly where as fleet sales have had a drop off in sales of 15% roughly.
          With such a drop off in new private sales, I wonder if it will be the demise of car dealerships that deal in new cars, most new Tesla cars are sold online.

          I pulled some invoices from a basic Kia Picanto I took out on a 3 year lease in 2017. This was based on 10k miles annually, non maintenance and was 3+35 monthly payments of £136.57.
          From a comparison site, the basic Kia Picanto on the same length contract, now is 3+35 monthly payments of £266.77. So when they said fully electric cars would soon be parity with a combustion engine car is not down to electric cars getting cheaper the cost of a combustion engine car is catching up with them.

          When our current lease ends in August 2026 I would say that will be the end of me taking out a new car on contract. Can't justify paying in excess of £266 per month just for a small hatchback which excludes insurance, maintenance and fuel, regardless of fuel type. Priced off the road, pure and simple.
           
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          • JWK

            JWK Gardener Staff Member

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            I wonder if the rise in interest rates has played a big part in those increased lease costs? Depreciation is also a big factor, so another possibility is ICE cars having a higher depreciation (compared to a few years ago) maybe they will be worth less in 3 years time due to them being phased out. Maybe it's a combination of both factors.
             
          • JWK

            JWK Gardener Staff Member

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            If I'm right then 3 year old ex lease ICE cars will become much cheaper.
             
          • pete

            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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            Right, thanks FC, I thought there must be a difference, but I cant see the point.:scratch:
            I know all electric vehicles have have a power station in tow but this sounds slightly stupid.
             
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            • gks

              gks Total Gardener

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              I agree about the rise in interest rates plus shortages of raw materials due to Covid and a plummeting pound due to Liz Truss, but that does not justify the huge increase in monthly payments.
              From what I have heard, car dealers are under investigation for inflating costs on loans on both new and second hand cars, could be the new PPI scandal.


              UK car finance: ‘millions of drivers could get payout’ as watchdog investigates | Financial sector | The Guardian
               
            • Fat Controller

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              Worst of all worlds in my opinion. If you want electric, then get proper electric
               
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              • Loofah

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                • gks

                  gks Total Gardener

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                  Also, manufacturers have been focusing on building cars where there profits don't take a hit.
                  Historically, the best selling cars in Europe will be down two main reason's, affordability and they all tend to be small hatch backs in general.

                  Europe: 1972-2022 Historical Data available.

                  Not everyone wants a large car even if they could afford one. Some or most of these subsidies don't help those on lower incomes. Some of these subsidies take into account range and weight of the car, the better the range of the vehicle will contribute to getting maximum subsidy, but then the car is less likely to fall into the affordability bracket, both new and second hand.
                   
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                  • JWK

                    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                    It's only the well off that buy EVs, they can afford to buy new, or most likely are given them as part of their renumeration package. So the rest of us shun them on the second hand market, financially they make no sense as well as the lack of infrastructure.

                    Higher electric costs now mean an EV costs about the same to run as an ICE, so who would pay a big premium to buy one that won't get them from A to B without stopping to charge up on the way?
                     
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                      Last edited: Jan 16, 2024
                    • JWK

                      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                      I charged mine at home for about the third of the cost of public chargers. At the time I calculated I saved around two thirds compared to petrol. I only used my EV for commuting so it was straight forward to compare with my previous ICE car. Now that energy prices have tripled I guess EVs are on a par to run, but I no longer have one having retired.

                      I'm only going by my experience, I know Tesla at one time gave away lifetime free charging at their superchargers so that would make a huge cost saving. Also my EV lease deal allowed me to charge for free on certain providers, but there were none nearby or on my commute route.
                       
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                        Last edited: Jan 16, 2024
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