Ford Focus

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by pete, Apr 24, 2015.

  1. HarryS

    HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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    LOTUS ..... Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      As I said earlier, its running ok again now.
      Took it out this morning for a thrash, cant get it to do it again.:scratch::scratch:
       
    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      That screams a dodgy sensor or electrical issue to me; once a modern ECU decides it doesn't like a sensor for whatever reason, they seem to have the tendency to switch them off, at least until a re-boot/re-start
       
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      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        Could you explain that in words of one syllable please FC, I think I get the gist of it.

        But reboot/restart, does that mean an engine restart, or something else?
         
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        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          Quite often, it is an engine restart, yes. Other times, it requires a certain number of 'cycles' (engine off, engine on) before it will restore power or start accepting the information from that sensor again, and in some cases it needs reset by a suitable diagnostic tool before it will play ball.

          Try not to think of your car as a car, but a car with a few computers, each of which are in control of their own 'department' (for want of a better way of saying it), and one main one that collects information from those smaller computers to allow it to decide what it needs to do (such as how much fuel or air is needed, and when the spark should happen etc etc) - - if the main computer 'asks' one of these computers for information and then gets an answer that it doesn't understand or an answer that doesn't make sense when compared with the information coming from all the other sensors, it decides that the sensor it has got the duff info from is probably faulty and then either switches it off altogether or excludes its data from the decision making process.

          For example, if one of the O2 sensors was reporting that it had a massive amount of oxygen passing through per second, yet every other sensor on the car was saying that there was a shortage of oxygen, the main ECU would exclude the information coming from that sensor as its information was implausible (and this would almost certainly chuck a yellow engine light up to warn you that things weren't quite right); from that point on, the ECU would be trying to give its best guess as to what was going on, however this would almost certainly lead to the car running like a bag of spanners as a considerable amount of the information it needs to run is being based on a 'guess'. It is likely that the ECU would then not bother even asking that sensor anything until the power has been off and then it comes back again (restart of the car)

          Many of the sensors rely on remarkably small components, and some of them may work completely differently at different temperatures. A MAF for example is more often than not a thin film sensor (think of it like a thinner version one of the wires in a toaster) - the amount of electricity that flows through it is determined by how hot it gets, and the amount of electricity flowing through is measured, which in turn then tells the car how much air is moving over the sensor (the hotter it gets, the less electricity flows - more air cools the sensor dropping resistance); now, if there was a problem where the sensor had a slightly higher resistance when cold, the info coming from it would be completely wrong, so the car might well disregard it and carry on without - - - yet it is entirely possible that the sensor could begin working normally when it warms up a bit, so switching the car off and back on could get the car to listen to the sensor once more and all would seem absolutely fine until such times as it was started from cold again.

          The real problem is finding the guilty sensor, particularly if the fault is intermittent.
           
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          • HarryS

            HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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            @pete , I think FC means turn it off , and then on again. :snork:
            Sorry FC , that was a really good post. It explained quite a few points to my mechanical brain:dbgrtmb: ( I really do not like/understand electronics, hopefully they will never catch on :biggrin: )
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              Yes thanks FC.
              You put a lot into that post.:smile:

              I kind of get it now.
              My next question is,
              If the fault is not there at the time of the car being taken in, will it, or can it still show up on their computer.
               
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              • longk

                longk Total Gardener

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                Far more than I could be assed to type at 2 wpm!

                The fault code will still be there but the live data will show nothing of use.
                 
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                • pete

                  pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                  [QUOTE="longk, post: 928586, member: 10454

                  The fault code will still be there but the live data will show nothing of use.[/QUOTE]

                  Is that a yes, still take in, or a no, dont bother, till conks out completely?
                   
                • longk

                  longk Total Gardener

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                  Is that a yes, still take in, or a no, dont bother, till conks out completely?
                  [/QUOTE]
                  Yes, take it in. It may be a common issue and the fault code may be all they need to confirm the fault.
                   
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                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    @longk is bang on @pete - take it in. If Ford is anything like the VAG products, the fault code will be stored along with the conditions that were present at the time of the fault and how many times it has happened.

                    Whilst this is not the be all and end all of diagnostics, it helps put the technician on the right path. Besides anything else, if (God forbid) problems continue and you have to keep taking it back, you will at the same time be creating a case for continued support once the warranty runs out.
                     
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                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                      I took the car in this morning.
                      After a couple of hours they told me that there was an error code showing up and they was doing a wiring check.
                      But they needed to contact Ford in order to work out what it was.

                      Eventually, after 3 hours, they gave me a courtesy car, but I think that happened after Ford Customer Services contacted them.
                      I had E mailed them last week.

                      After work I went back as I had heard nothing, and they said it was all sorted.
                      it was a problem with the wiring loom?
                      Does that sound feesable?
                       
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                      • ARMANDII

                        ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                        • Fat Controller

                          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                          It is entirely feasible @pete - many modern cars have wiring looms that disappear right into the engine (in the case of some diesels for example, there is wiring in the top of the cylinder head that basically lives bathed in oil) - sadly, when you run cabling as close or even into an engine, there is always the risk that the wiring can develop a fault due to the stresses of heat and vibration. My Passat had a fault with the engine wiring loom that controlled the injectors, and it ran like a bag of spanners until that section of loom was replaced. Quite a common fault on some Land Rover models too.

                          See how it goes - with any luck, that will be the end of your woes :)
                           
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                          • longk

                            longk Total Gardener

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                            Yes. It seems a bit early for wiring issues unless it's a known fault...................
                             
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