Fracking good or bad?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by _Evelyn_, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    A lot of this problem wouldn't have occurred if all the recent governments (for the last 30 years) had got their fingers out and made the decision to build more nuclear power plants. We would have had plenty of power and a lot more time to work towards green/renewal energy sources.

    Instead, they've dithered so much that this will go ahead whether we like it or not.

    Someone, earlier on this thread, mentioned that the government should subsidise solar power for people. They already do it to a certain extent but seem to have quietly let it slip. All schools, hospitals and other public places should have it. Many big businesses are taking advantage of the solar technology and the governments are just sitting on backsides and not getting their fingers out of them!

    Rant, rant!!! :mad:
     
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    • Scrungee

      Scrungee Well known for it

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      I've read that the Business Rate retention is worth £1.7 million per fracking well, plus they get 1% of the revenue and there's some other stuff that all adds up to £10 million per annum. What on earth is the going rate for bribing a Councillor these days?

      I foresee this whole bribe incentive business causing problems with how it would be distributed. If it's ring fenced to just very local communities will the local Parish Councils really get £1 million pounds p.a.?

      And then there'd be the fracking wells just across a Council boundary from a village or town, so the adjoining Council would get all the cash and that village/town would get nothing apart from the disbenefits.
       
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      • DIY-Dave

        DIY-Dave Gardener

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        Perhaps because the solar panel manufactures don't give enough bribes err, sorry meant campaign contributions.
         
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        • Jack McHammocklashing

          Jack McHammocklashing Sludgemariner

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          You can guarantee if it goes ahead Our bills will NOT be reduced, Blah blah need it for reserves for 2030 blah blah EU Rules etc blah blach.
          Increased profits though for the share holders and bungs to ministers/councils

          I do not know enough about it
          If it was safe and the benefits to the public like half price fuel then fine
          Only we do not know,

          As for clean ups, we have several large holes in the ground here in FIFE and now all the coal is extracted, British Coal cried bust no money Bankcrupt and moved out, can not afford to carry out the clean up
          (There are several large plant equipment lying there the past two years and a lovely large JCB complete with buckets that I am sorely tempted to give a good home to :-) )

          Jack McH
           
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          • Scrungee

            Scrungee Well known for it

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            Did anybody buy a dodgy wind turbine from B&Q before they took them off the market?

            http://www.diyweek.net/news/news.asp?id=11999
            Going back a bit from that, does anybody else remember the then government saying that electricity generated by nuclear power stations would be so cheap they wouldn't bother charging for it as the cost of metering consumption would be greater than the cost of generation? "Too cheap to meter" was the phrase being bandied about.
             
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            • DIY-Dave

              DIY-Dave Gardener

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              Our government is also trying to go ahead with fracking in the Karoo (some 900 miles S.W. from where I am) and spewing out the same nonsense about lower fuel costs to customers, job creation, incentives for local municipalities, less dependence on foreign fuel, blaah, blaah, blaah.
               
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              • pete

                pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                I'd never believe the bit about lower fuel bills, however I do worry about some of the dodgy places we might be relying on for gas.
                We need our own energy supplies, and windmills are just another government rip off, going by what I have heard.
                Anyway it stands to sense, they dont work when the wind dont blow.

                I do have a liking for roof fitted solar panels, but just how cost effective they are is a mystery to me, as again, no even handed evaluation.
                 
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                • Webmaster

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                  If this 'boy' (s he was at the time) can do this, we should be able to replicate something here...... But even better, with our resources :-

                   
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                  • DIY-Dave

                    DIY-Dave Gardener

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                    Very true Webmaster.

                    What ever happened to wave power?
                    As I recall, the UK used to be the world leader in this.
                     
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                    • Webmaster

                      Webmaster Webmaster Staff Member

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                      And soda bottle lights :-

                       
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                      • Scrungee

                        Scrungee Well known for it

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                        And they don't work (have to be shut down) when it blows too much.

                        Are they only cost effective if subsidised? They seem to be getting better in that modern panels are slower to degrade that older ones and appear to need chucking out after 25 years http://energyinformative.org/lifespan-solar-panels/ , but as they get better and better will households find it cost effective to update and send the old ones to landfill every 10 years or so?
                         
                      • DIY-Dave

                        DIY-Dave Gardener

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                        What a simple but absolutely amazing idea those soda bottle lights.
                         
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                        • ARMANDII

                          ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                          There are many economic and evironmental facets to the arguments for and against fracking. I did some "looking around" when the Blackpool fracking was being proposed. If you look at the American record for health and safety, environmental protection, lack of rules and law, the numerous complaints against the Fracking Companies and the inability of complainants to get backing from the State Governments or the Federal Government it's not a recommendation for Fracking in the UK.
                          One of the problems that really stands out is that the Fracking Companies will not release the recipe for the solution of chemicals that are forced into the ground under great pressure to cause the Fracking process. So why not? Is it such a potent and environmental Witches Brew that causes such damage that the Fracking Companies won't acknowledge it or entertain any questions regarding it?
                          Any chemicals forced forced deep into the ground over an area of more than an area of several thousand cubic feet will, logically, eventually join the natural seepage of clean, unpolluted water that will drain into streams, rivers, ponds, lakes and reservoirs. That water will eventually be drunk by humans and animals alike.
                          Fracking is not a specific form of drilling in that the process has a lot of leakage of the gases and other chemicals which finds its way to the surface. I think most people have seen the documentaries showing the examples of house owners being able to set fire to their tap water. I'm not sure that I want to run the risk of that!!
                          However, just like in America, the Fracking Companies have a lot of power, know how to offer inducements, hire professional lobbyists, and pressure those they need to. I don't think this present Government or indeed any future Government, of whatever colour, will resist the commercial gains they think can be had as promised by the Fracking Companies despite the environmental risks as they will convince themselves that they will have tighter regulations to safeguard such risks.:dunno::coffee:
                           
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                          • pete

                            pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                            Only going on what I have heard, but as I understand it, this goes on much deeper than any water extraction in the UK, in the US they do use very deep boreholes for water extraction.

                            "Fracking is not a specific form of drilling in that the process has a lot of leakage of the gases and other chemicals which finds its way to the surface." isn't that the object of the exercise?

                            As to tap water catching fire, obviously something has gone very wrong at the water treatment plant, I think its a joke.
                             
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                            • Jack McHammocklashing

                              Jack McHammocklashing Sludgemariner

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                              A dozen Nuclear plants, and we could live free of fuel costs if it was so wished
                              To many fingers in the pie of profits in the electricity generating, they would still want mega profits, and it is true it would cost more to read peoples meters than it would to produce
                              Then in this day and age the meters could be read on line, so minimum cost to everyone

                              Too many people frightened about Nuclear waste Even though they do not know what Nuclear waste is (cotton gloves, paper suits exposed for more than thirty minutes to the main fusion plant = less radiation than in your 1960's illuminated wrist watch)

                              Yes there have been FOUR disasters in the WORLD over the past 50 years equating to less than one years road deaths in the UK

                              Nuclear for me please AND NO WIND FARMS leave this as it is
                              [​IMG]

                              After wee ecks Independence

                              [​IMG]

                              Jack McH
                               
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