Fracking good or bad?

When you look at the rate which energy prices are increasing it seems totally pointless to me to search the house at night for any little red lights that are on. The problem is that the energy companies are corrupt and greedy, in a few years time I won't be able to afford to put the kettle on at this rate.
As for running out of oil, well they've been spinning that line for a long time personally I don't believe it.

 

Find them, turn them off, save the money and leave the energy "In the ground". I'm missing why you think that would be pointless?

If you still fill the kettle right up, to make a cup, then reduce how much you put in. If there is water left in the kettle, after making a cuppa, then you started with too much "

It isn't infinite, or renewable, so it will run out at some point. I don't know who to believe as to "when", and if we allow Fracking (or find another local source) then the "when" is postponed - i.e. if we buy less Oil from Saudi Arabia, because we have Fracking/A.N.Other, then Saudi Arabia will supply us with their oil for longer.

But I want to be self supporting, energywise, because as I see it:

When oil starts running out in Country-X then Country-X will say "We will keep the remainder for our own use, and not export it". That decision will happen suddenly, perhaps they won't tell us they are running out until they tell us that they are keeping the remainder for themselves :(

Once oil starts to run out it becomes harder to get out of the ground - so costs more to "mine". There are some clever emerging technologies that are enabling "more" to be got out of old wells, but it costs more (otherwise everyone would have done it by now). So that will provide "more oil", but there still comes a time when it becomes expensive, then scarce, then non-existent.

A further problem is that the whole world is using more and more oil each year. Humans aren't good at visualising the effects of exponential growth. Lets say the world is using 5% more oil each year (because India / China / emerging economies are using more, even if we might be using less).

Lets just say, for the sake of argument, that the world has always used 5% more each year, right back since the day that oil was first used. (It has in fact increased at a pretty fixed rate, apart from a few hiccups for recession and oil-embargo)

OK. 5% increase per annum. That means that we will use twice as much, as today, in 14 years time.

Furthermore, and this I find scary, in the next 14 years we will use as much as we have EVER used before. In total. So when we have used exactly half of the absolute total that is in the ground we have a further 14 years until there is absolutely nothing left - even IF we could get it all out of the ground.

Pick a different percent to 5% if you like. The time-to-double (using exponential growth) is 70 divided by that percentage. And in that time-to-double you will use as much as you have since the beginning (provided that the percent of exponential growth has been roughly constant)

Look at it another way:

There are two bacteria in a jar. They breed, and the colony doubles every minute. Doesn't matter when they got there, and started breeding, but lets assume that the jar will become full at midnight. When will they panic? At one minute to midnight the jar is half full ... at two minutes to midnight it is a quarter full. At ten minutes to midnight the jar is 0.1% full ...

OK, at 1 minute to midnight the bacteria discover 4 brand new jars - that is 4 times the total space that they have ever had. They will have used it up by 2 minutes past midnight :(

Oil is the same, because our usage is exponential. It we continue to increase our use at, say, 5% then every 14 years we need to find a new supply that is as big as all the oil we have ever used. And we need to do that again 14 years later.

Or find a different source of fuel. That is why I want to reduce how much I use, I need to learn how to break the habit and reliance on Cheap Energy now. I urge you to do the same.

 

Great posts from Kristen and Shiney, on this thread, thanks.

How about, um, a torch, Shiney?

I'm sceptical about the effectiveness of security lights. My house is on a busy, well-lit street and has still been burgled twice - through the front door. My BF always leaves lights on - but on the landing which is as good as saying, the rooms are empty, we are all out! Also, burglars only have to ring the bell to find out if anyone's in, lights or no lights.

I agree that switching everything off at source is just good housekeeping.

What is more difficult is reviewing ways our energy use has crept up and trying to address it. For example - my laptop, on most of the day. I didn't even have a computer 15 years ago. Multiply than by 60 million or more and it represents a massive increase in consumption.

Think I'll log off now!

 

I don't think there is an infinite amount. I think it is abundant though. Again if electricity is so expensive that I have to start searching for little red lights to turn out at night, then I think it's fair to say I can't afford electrcity and need to start living like a caveman. The energy companies are corrupt to the core and have far too much of an influence over the mainstream media and government. How much money has been taken from the people of this country in the name of green taxes and investing in future infrastructure I really don't know but if you have a look at the revenues of the big six it gives you a vague idea, also despite the fact that we are already being robbed every single day by foreign owned utility companies the government themselves like I said earlier have just given 3.8 billion pounds of our money to the "green investment bank" which is headed by the boss of SSE. How much more money do they want a few more billion? A few more trillion? The same people who are destroying this planet are the same people who are becoming immensely rich taxing it better.

 

I'm happy to agree with, but you still only have 14 years from the point at which we have use half of it until there is nothing left at all, and 28 years from the point at which we have used 1/4 of it (assuming we don't reduce our consumption).

Personally I think we have used half, give or take. So 20-30 years, allowing for Shale gas and Fracking and A.N. other, to find an alternative. If not a problem for us it sure as eggs is eggs will be for our children ... or our grandchildren. And they will, rightly, ask "Given that they knew it was a problem why the bejesus didn't they do something about it?"

 

I can see exactly where your coming from Kristen and I agree with parts of what your saying. My problem is the distrust I have when it comes to energy companies, banks and the media, who are all key players in this matter, and to be fair, I think my distrust is justified when you look at what these people/companies have been involved in.

 

Indeed. Whilst I don't agree entirely with your mistrust of big-corp I have no confidence that I am 100% right to trust them either! and I am certainly critical of their greed. But either way the maths say that we have a looming problem. The fact that government isn't tell me that there is a looming problem is a concern in itself.

There is a chap called McKay who is an Energy Advisor to the government now, but formally he was a loan voice about these problems, so hopefully if he is now on the inside he is making some headway persuading politicians that they have to do something. I found his assessment of UK's energy requirements / problems, going forward, interesting. Its available in an e-Book I think, I'll have a Google for it,

 

For anyone who is interested: "Sustainable Energy – without the hot air"

www.withouthotair.com

 

Ahhh.... I shouldn't have clicked the link :( It makes my blood boil!

First thing I read:

"Efficient electricity use

According to the International Energy Agency, standby power con-
sumption accounts for roughly 8% of residential electricity demand. In
the UK and France, the average standby power is about 0.75 kWh/d per
household. The problem isn’t standby itself – it’s the shoddy way in which
standby is implemented. It’s perfectly possible to make standby systems
that draw less than 0.01 W; but manufacturers, saving themselves a penny
in the manufacturing costs, are saddling the consumer with an annual cost
of pounds"

http://www.withouthotair.com/c22/page_155.shtml

 

"With out the hot air" lol
The man who wrote this propogan....sorry, book, currently works for the government.
Who was it again that said earlier in this thread about powering the whole of London with hot air produced from parliment??

 

yeah, but he wrote the book before he worked for government ...

Anyway, the book reads just like common sense (or it did to me) so I found it worth reading just as an eye opener.

For example: If we decided to have Wind Turbines on every possible inch of usable land (IF I said!!), how much power would that generate? Add to that offshore wind, tide, solar, etc. etc. He does all the sums, and tells you what assumptions he has made, and then makes the whole thing sound depressingly unachievable.

 

Reduce consumption to save energy costs and reserves :-)

I am retired, I had to buy my Annuity when they are at there lowest ever
The lump sum is held for a rainy day
Already I have had to dip in to replace central heating (ok should have done it whilst employed)
Replace collapsed ceiling
Pay for vandalised car

We have the heating on at 18 deg for one hour in the morning, and one hour at night
and we are damn cold
Lighting we have the energy saving lamps, lamps that are dimmer than the gas mantle we used to have in the 50's in our case or candles in Dickensian days

A brick in the toilet cistern to save water consumption

Shower daily in our eco efficient shower (Do not want to go back to the Bri-Nylon shirt with reversible collar and cuffs and bath on Friday nights :-)
Or sludgemarine where you get a shower at the end of the 12 week trip and you are ashore

How can I be more frugal and save energy for the Country ?

Jack McH

 

63F, god sounds a bit like an igloo