FROM THE OLD BOOK

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by ARMANDII, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. Phil A

    Phil A Guest

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    Wind was blowing the wrong way & he couldn't row against the tide.

    Without Googling it, does anyone know why we ended up with a pound with 240 pennies ?
     
  2. Spotlandman

    Spotlandman Apprentice Gardener

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    Is it anything to do with weight 240 pennyweights equals 1 lb

    Just a thought
     
  3. Phil A

    Phil A Guest

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    Not far off. The old money did directly relate to weights.

    But the 240 comes from an old king ( can't remember which one, but I think he may have been saxon)

    Giving a pound of silver to a blacksmith and asking him how much he could divide it up into.

    He managed 240 pieces, thats how we got stuck with it for centuries.

    We can Google it now & see how totally wrong I am :D
     
  4. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    I would go and google it -but I've got to spend a penny first.
     
  5. Phil A

    Phil A Guest

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    Tee hee,

    Not found the story yet but I did find this,

    http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/moneyold.htm

    Might be usefull for our younger members such as Marley and Alice to understand pre decimal coinage:)

    Looks like it was Henry the II that introduced it then, not a Saxon Monarch as I thought earlier.

    Like I said, i've worked on his bedroom & en suite. He had a lovely encaustic tiled floor.[hr]
    http://www.visitchurches.org.uk/tiles/
     
  6. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    I noticed that dog doo doo came up [so to speak] on one of the posts and could it be used in compost?, so I thought I would see what the thoughts were, 100 years ago, on several kinds of manure. So again sit down on the bench, ease off the braces, and light the gas lamp again.

    "MANURE, POULTRY


    The droppings from a chicken farm are valuable manure. They double in value by being allowed to dry in the air, and then stored in sacks, or boxes, will be found to be about three times as rich as farmyard manure. Do not use more than 1 and half pound per square yard. and never let it come into actual contact with seeds or seedlings. Pigeon manure is even richer than ordinary poultry manure. and may only be used at half the rate."

    "MANURE, MIXING


    In using special fertilisers, the amateur gardener should beware of mixing them unless quite certain of the result. Basic slag should never be mixed with superphosphate of lime; neither should nitrate of soda be mixed with other chemicals. As a general rule, it will be found better to apply each fertiliser separately at different seasons, and mixing should only be done in accordance with definite instructions."


    "MANURE, FARMYARD


    This manure is perhaps the most important of the raw materials used in the garden. It is a complete plant food containing nitrogen, phosphoric acid and potash. Many gardeners imagine it to be the cheapest of all plant foods, but this is certainly not the case. Unless it is made with care and the animals producing it are fed on rich food, it's direct fertilising value is small. Undoubtedly the greatest advantage obtained from dunging land is that organic matter or humus is thus added to the soil. A stiff soil is rendered easier to work and a light soil more retentive of moisture. This makes it warmer and more friable and greatly assists the working of those minute organisms called bacteria which are responsible for the many chemical changes which result in crop improvement.
    Too much farmyard manure, however, sours the soil. the effect produced being analogous to that produced by the excess of humus in bogs and on moors.
    The best way to use well made rich farmyard manure to follow the procedure of the forester when thinning. "Early, lightly and often" is a golden rule. Crops grown with heavy dressings of dung alone seldom reach their maximum productivity. Farmyard and stable manure should be used carefully, the gardener applying supplementary dressing of nitrogen, phosphates and potash where he thinks they will do most good.
    Farmyard manure should always be stored carefully and not left exposed to rains. The following data illustrates the need for this. In three months, the total loss of nitrogen from a quantity of manure stored in a compost under cover was 4% only. During the same period the loss from manure stored loose under cover was 7%. from manure stored loose in the open the loss was 33%. All manure heaps should therefore be stored dry and covered with a layer of soil."


    "CAT MANURE


    This, as is well known, is a smelly solid rich in phosphates, as also is dog manure. Very little of it is available unless the garden is attached to a cats home, so that it is hardly worth troubling about. If supplies are available. these may be mixed with farmyard manure and dug in the usual way in the winter."


    "DOG MANURE


    This is of little value for the garden, though not actually injurious as some gardeners imagine. It is rich in phosphates, and is best mixed with horse or farmyard manure and dug in in the usual way in the winter, but unless a pack of hounds are kept, or the garden is attached to a dogs home, it is not usually available in sufficiently large quantities to be trouble with."


    There's plenty more articles in the old books on the manure subject, on how to make it and how to make liquid manure, etc, but that can come later. I hope it's been of interest!!



     
  7. Phil A

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    That was probably rich in phosphates when dogs were fed bones.
     
  8. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    Are you still up,Ziggy?? I'm just off to bed!! There's a lot in the old books about bones, Ziggy, which I'll put into this thread later. It's interesting how they covered all points and made use of everything they could. Nighty night!
     
  9. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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  10. HarryS

    HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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    The old money - Pounds , shillings and pence , was designated as LSD - what I hear you say !
    It stands for Libra Solidus Denarius, the denarius was an old roman coin ( I also thought it was named after an old Saxon or pre saxon king ). The £ sign is actually a stylised L , in fact when I was working in Italy before the Euro , the sign for the Italian Lira was also the £ .
     
  11. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    I just love this Forum!! You can garden and get educated for free!!
     
  12. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    Haven't you received your bill yet? :heehee:
     
  13. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    I KNEW there was a catch somewhere!!
     
  14. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm trying to cover all subjects in this Thread about how gardeners thought and practiced gardening a
    hundred years ago. So the following is for the Dahlia maniacs and lovers and is from a book published
    in 1901.
    "DAHLIA : HISTORICAL NOTES
    The Dahlia has been grown in Europe since 1780, in which year Cervantes of of the Mexico Botanic Garden
    sent three varieties to the Abbe Cavanilles of Madrid. It was then a new and unknown plant and after it
    had had been flowered in the Madrid Botanic Garden, Cavanilles named it Dahlia out of respect for the great
    Swedish botanist Andre Dahl. The three varieties were named by Cavanilles as, D. Pinnata, D.Rosea, and
    D.Coccinea.
    Some confusion was caused in the early days of the flowers history by Willdenow of Berlin giving the plant
    another name, that of Georgina but ultimately on the score of priority, English, French, and other botanists,
    except the Germans, decided to revert to the original name and by them Dahlia has ever since continued to
    be used.
    It has been erroneously stated by every writer on Dahlia history for upwards of a century that this flower was originally introduced into England in 1789. It has been show that it was not until 1798 that the plant, through Lady Bute, reached this country and that it was grown at Kew for a few years and then disappeared
    .The credit for the 2nd introduction into England was due to Lady Holland, who in 1804 sent seeds home from Spain. Since that time it's cultivation has been continuous. In 1802 it was introduced into France. Andre
    Thouin figured and described in 1804. De Candolle six years later also wrote about it. The Comte Lelieur and
    many other seedling raisers doing excellent work in elevating the flower to a higher standard of perfection. About the same time the German Horticulturists received plants making great changes to the flower. Hartweg, Otto, Fintelmann, Deegan and others are worthy of mention in respect of the popularity of the flower gained in their country.
    Dahlias were confined to that type known as the old show and fancy varieties and no break was made until 1850 , In that year Siekman of Kostriz obtained and put into commerce the first pompon dahlia. The Cactus
    type also came originally from Mexico, and was the precursor of the new race of decorative and exhibitiion
    flowers now so highly esteemed. The Collerette section was another peculiar departure from the normal, the
    first example of them being raised at Lyons, in France, in the year 1899. To encourage it's cultivation the National Dahlia Society was founded many years ago, and still continues it's good work holding exhibitions,
    publishing it's catalogues and other literature with almost unfailing regularity."


    "NIGHT SOIL


    It always seems to us one of the biggest national sins that Night Soil is not taken more care of than it is. Under the present arangements, outside waterclosets run into ashpits, into which kitchen ashes, by no means free from cinders are thrown daily by the resident of that house. In due course the ashpit is "full", in other words, it is up to the level of the gap through which ashes are thrown, and it becomes necessary to have it
    emptied. A cart calls at midnight and empties this pit, the material of which is fully charged with plant food
    and very often the carter sells the material to some gardener or other for use on his land. This Night Soil is
    very often the undoing of the gardener, instead of being good stuff, it is often terrible material, on account of
    the many sharp fragments of cinder ashes it contains. So the gardener should avoid it, for it will produce
    scores of scabs on potatoes, parsnips, beet, and other roots. The proper way of making Night Soil is to have
    the closet entirely separated from the ashpit The closet if outside should on no account be a water closet,
    but man earth closet of the good old fashioned type. The urinal should be separate, and should run to a
    cesspool with the drainings from the house. The contents of the pan, which ought of course, for sanitary
    reasons to be emptied daily, are very rich as regards food and humus, and provided the earth used is earth in
    the strictest sense of the word, and entirely distinct from ground grit or ashes, then the material will be of
    high value as manure. The most convenient way ism to form a long, low stack of it in some out of the way
    part of the garden free from trees, and cover the heap with a good thick layer of earth. After decomposing
    for a few months, this grand material can be freely used for the vegetable garden, and also for the fruit garden. Five or six cwts can be used per square rod if put in the autumn. An ordinary disinfectant used in
    the closet will not impair the value of the manure, but may indeed improve it. Probably it is best to avoid applying lime when stacking the night soil, as lime is apt to vaporise the ammonia it contains.
     
  15. Phil A

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    Thats an interesting account Armandii.

    If we are covering it all here, then i'd like to add a bit about fireplace ashes in Victorian times if I may.

    Londons heating source was coal. Every house had a fire & so there were enormous amounts of ash to dispose of.

    That which didn't get used in the night soil pits was dumped in huge communal ash piles where it was sorted (usually by children) into different grades.

    The very fine and medium sieved grades would be sold on to the building trades. The fine going into plaster & render mixes and the medium into building mortar.

    This was not just to economise on the sand added to the mortar, if the ash contained reactive silicates and aluminates then it would cause a chemical set in the lime mortar turning it into a "Hydraulic Lime" as opposed to it being just a "Putty Lime"

    Hydraulic lime gives a harder set and will set in the absense of air. Putty lime needs the CO2 from the air to set & without it, it will not set.

    The Romans knew of this technology, they used volcanic ash or ground up bricks and tiles to produce the set. It meant that they could build very wide walls, such as the Colliseum, which would have taken forever to build with a putty lime mortar, as they would have had to wait months for each course to set before building the next course.

    They could also build shuttering onto river beds and fill it with a mixture of hydraulic lime & rubble (which they called "Cementum") This would set underwater and enabled them to bridge wide rivers.

    We forgot this technology when the Romans left Britain. Wells Cathedral was built with putty lime & the middle of the walls (where the air can't get to) have still not set.

    The Coarse sievings from the Victorian Ash piles were sold to the brick making industry, which used them as "inclusions" in the bricks they made.

    If you live in an Edwardian part of London, like Tooting for instance, have a look at your house bricks.

    You will probably be able to make out bits of ash from those great ash piles.

    Spare a thought for the poor children who spent year after year sieving those piles only to die prematurely from having their lungs ripped apart by the jagged ash dust.

    Blimey, that nearly turned into a paper, think i'll copy and paste that one for my website.
     
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