FROM THE OLD BOOK

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by ARMANDII, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    Yet again, Ziggy, you have "educatified" me. It's amazing how just the simple subject of ashes can be so
    interesting!!
     
  2. Phil A

    Phil A Guest

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    Sorry:DOH:

    Lets do Oysters tonight then.

    Often when repointing a Church or other old building you find the flat half of oyster shells have been used in the mortar to bed the stones on. Often there are hundreds of shells in the wall. They give an even bed to the stones & make pointing easier.

    You might draw the conclusion that the builders were being paid too much. A very expensive bedding material
    to use.

    Just the opposite. Oysters over a hundred years ago were a working mans food. Everyone ate them, they were cheap and some grew so large that they had to be cut into 4 pieces to eat them.Some recipes called for 60 oysters to be included.

    So what went wrong ?

    Oysters are very slow to reproduce, slow growing and are also very sensitive to environmental change.

    So a combination of over picking and polllution has lead to the almost total collapse of our native oyster,
    Ostrea Edulis.

    It is clinging to existance in only 30 sheltered bays and sea lochs around the British Isles.

    If that wasn't bad enough for the poor little thing, because it is so rare, a huge demand has sprung up in restaurants in France, Germany , Spain and Japan. So poachers can make thousands with no regard to conservation or size.

    The farmed Oyster is the Pacific Oyster, crassostrea gigas. So even if these get out and colonise our shores, it will do nothing for our native oyster.

    I have found a fossilised oyster 90 million years old, unchanged since then. We've managed to all but wipe them out in a hundred years.

    I'm no stranger to the sea & shellfish forraging, but i've never seen a wild oyster.

    So, if you do come across one whilst forraging, give it a kiss, wish it luck & let it bide.

    Don't eat it, they taste like snot.
     
  3. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    Sorry to go a bit off topic. This is for ziggy. :)

    Near us there is a Shell House that was built sometime between 1754 and 1759. Only the exterior uses the shells. They now are pretty sure that the oysters used in the the emblem are inoceramus fossils from the cretaceous period.

    [​IMG]

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  4. Phil A

    Phil A Guest

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    Theres a topic ?:heehee:

    Thats fantastic Shiney :dbgrtmb:

    I've seen a shell grotto on Gurnsey, but nothing that big.
     
  5. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    Hi ziggy,
    It is owned by The National Trust and they had it renovated, and underpinned, a couple of years ago. :dbgrtmb: Inside the house they have books with photos showing the renovation.
     
  6. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    That's fantastic, Shiney. I wouldn't mind seeing it first hand. You weren't off topic - the shell house was built back in the old times!!

    I read the oyster article twice, Ziggy, it was then engrossing. I must admit I've never had the inclination to eat them - especially after your description of what they taste like!
     
  7. Phil A

    Phil A Guest

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    :heehee:

    Glad you Liked the article :thumbsup: Not many people apreciate fishy tales of justified and ancient bivalves.

    I Like a fair amount of shellfish, not got my courage up to try whelks & winkles yet, the slug phobia is putting me off, too much like snails to me.

    Not caught a spoot yet, would like to try one of those.

    Did find a scallop stranded on Weymouth beach, thought i'd better have that before Strongyloadon had it:heehee:

    Brought it home and put it in some fresh water for it to clean itself out but it died an hour or so later.

    I cooked it straight away and ate it, as shellfish go off very quickly.

    In the morning, daughter Willow got up to go to infant school, looked in the now empty bucket & said " Daddy, where's Scott ?"

    She'd named it:DOH: And later on at School told her teacher that i'd eaten her pet:DOH:
     
  8. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    ARMANDII, it's in Hatfield Forest (next to Stansted Airport) which used to belong to the Houblon family and they had it built.

    A bit of a distance for you to come to see it. Of course, you could combine it with a visit down here when we open our garden for charity in May. Last year there was a group of GC members that came to visit. :dbgrtmb:
     
  9. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    There have been quite a few female garden designers who left their lasting mark during the last 150 years but to my mind there haven't been any female professional gardeners who've done the same until this present decade. I say that because I think there's a difference between a designer and a gardener, although I know that even amateur gardeners combine the two these days.

    So here's an extract about the things a woman had to do to become a professional gardener 100 years ago and the general views of them in those days. I've had to pick out extracts within the general piece to cut out the lengthy dry bits. I've followed that up with extracts of other subjects to try to please people with other interests!!

    "WOMEN GARDENERS


    In dealing with the subject of Gardening as a career for women. It would be a pleasure to dwell simply on the attractive side of the subject, if only because it affords such a broad field of interest and such endless opportunities for abilities and skill. But to enjoy gardening as a hobby and to practise it as a profession are widely different things. The one presupposes a taste only. while the other demands vocation - with all that the word implies.

    And if the true gardener is born, she must almost certainly be made - and by this we mean to imply thorough training, grafted on a healthy disregard to comfortable conditions and an un-limited capacity for hard work. A foundation of capability being assumed, it is well to decide as to the probable branch of gardening which will be suit the individual to take up.

    To make a success of "Landscape Gardening" - the much abused name must be employed until a better is found - a woman gardener should have the best sort of technical training for this difficult craft, plus a inborn feeling for colour, form and line. She will be fortunate if an opportunity offers to enter a Architect's office, but failing this, as sound a knowledge as possible of mathematical drawing should be obtained , and every possible opportunity taken in the practice of design.

    It is, of course, important that a woman should be able to carry out every practical operation in a garden, in case no other help is available, but it is equally important that she be possessed of certain forte, without the exercise of which it is by no means clear as to why she should receive higher pay than a man. In a word, the woman gardener ought to be able to command good prices by reason of her unmistakable value, whether it be as an organiser of a gardening business, as a horticultural instructor, or a garden designer and consultant.

    And in her role of gardener designer and consultant, her work may well be found in establishing that better tradition of which the newer English gardens stand so badly in need and which cannot fail to haver its influence from the large estate down to the suburban strip of ground.

    The College Course

    This should take up not less that two years or, better still, three, and be followed by continental travel if possible. Now that the War is over, a definite stand must be made against the "Short Course" worker, since she can be no expert, as she has not had the time and the opportunity to study her subject under varying conditions. A woman gardener deserving real success should first qualify by taking a thorough training in her craft.

    Needless to say, there are other good training college in existence and the proper agencies to which to apply for information on the subject are the Central Bureau for Womens Employment and the Womens Farm and Garden Union - which latter is the recognised society for representing the interests of both women farmers and women gardeners

    The Horticultural Department of University College, Reading offers a careful and practical training on University lines/ At Swanley Horticultural College and at Studley College [Warwickshire] a special feature has always been made of market work. Nature study in relation to gardening is further represented at the School of Gardening at Clapham, near Worthing [Sussex]. An intending woman gardener will be fortunate if she is one of those allowed the privilege of training at the Royal Botonic Gardens, Glasnevin, Dublin. In Wales the centre of gardening is at Aberystwyth.

    Some Openings for Women Gardeners


    Private service - in this the duties are included of a small or a large garden, undertaken singlehanded or with help. Although such jobs are not generally well paid. such jobs provide useful experience. An under-gardeners place on the staff of a large "place" with a first class head gardener [preferably, as a rule, a man]is, of course, one of the most advantageous opportunities for the freshly trained but not very experienced woman gardener to take.

    During the war of the finest gardens in the country provided a splendid training ground for a number of women gardener, following upon the introduction of one partially trained student who impressed the head gardener favourably by her good and steady work. It is interesting to mention that one of the highest authorities in the Horticultural Department of the Ministry, speaking unofficially to the writer early in the present year [1920] gave as his opinion that the appointment of women gardeners to posts such as those indicated above should not suffer the least prejudice on a question of sex."


    "Old Fashioned Flowers


    It is of interest to consider what were the flowers of gardens in the days of our great-grand mothers, or about one hundred years ago, and think how charming those gardens must have been, although many of the plants that we now think of as indispensable were then unknown. From the middle to the end of the eighteenth century there had been in operation that great changein the treatment of pleasure grounds that involved the inclusion of much larger spaces. In some ways it was a wholesome innovation, for it gave a wider outlook in all senses, but as with all matters of prevailing fashion, it had regrettable consequences.

    For there were then existing all over the country the small enclosed gardens of Manor Houses and those belonging to many a modest dwelling of fairly well to do people, gardens that had remained unchanged since Jacobean and even Tudor times, but that must be swept away in obedience to the new fashion of landscape gardening. But a few people who were faithful to the old gardens, and to the old garden flowers also, and to this day these remain and retain a special degree of loving appreciation such as we do not extend to the many newcomers, however gorgeous they may be and however well fitted to take their places in our modern pleasure grounds."


    Their thoughts in those days were as modern then as ours are today and just as relevant, filled with regret and thoughts that the old days were better in many ways. I personally don't think they were.


    "Ammoniacal Liquor


    This consists chiefly of ammonia and if available near at hand should be largely used in the garden. Vegetable refuse which is rotting down may be thoroughly soaked with it once a week until it is dug in, and the value of the latter as manure will certainly be doubled if such a practice is adopted.

    Heaps of road manure, the fertilising value of which is comparatively poor, may with great advantage have frequent soakings of this liquid, and after decomposing down for a few weeks their value will be enormously increased. Immediately after such a soaking the heap or heaps should be thoroughly well dusted with powdered gypsum or covered with soil to prevent the escape of the ammonia.

    A very impure form of this known as GAS TAR WATER or GAS LIQUOR has a strong pungent odour and is of some use as a soil insecticide. A quart of this in 10 gallons of water will, it is said, completely clear any plot of pests if a thorough soaking of the liquid is given."








     
  10. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    There are a lot of gardeners on this Forum who are, or want to be, Allotment Holders, and in this thread I have already published an extract referring to the passing of legislation and the forming of the Nation Union of Allotments over 100 years ago showing the effect of the Great War [WW1] had on the effort to grow your own food.
    The following extract is again from 100 years ago from a different book showing a different approach to Allotments and Allotment holders and the views at that time. So think early 1900's. clogs, collarless shirts, rickets, and of course a gas lamp for you to read what was written so long ago:

    "ALLOTMENT ORGANISATIONS - THEIR VALUE
    AND PURPOSE.


    In dealing with this subject one is struck with the fact that the allotment movement has, at a bound, taken a recognised place in our national life. Prior to 1914 allotments were familiar landmarks up and down the country, but allotments organised for a national purpose were practically unknown.

    The present position is a product of the war. But neither allotments nor the organisations that represent them will pass with the war. The great army of land workers. who, at a time of national crisis, rallied to the country's aid, have earned the gratitude of the nation. It is now the duty of those in authority to see that those men and women who made secure the food supplies of the nation in the hour of peril shall have their heart's desire - a permanent place on the soil of their native land.

    Present day conditions have in some respects changed, or enlarged, our pre-war views as regards the value and purpose of allotments. Prior to August 1914 an allotment was generally looked upon as a means of offering a useful opportunity to the casual employed or under-employed, worker to supplement his earnings.

    The next stage in the development of the allotment idea was the revelation that if we were unable to continue to import our food supplies we must grow them or go without. We wisely decided to grow them, and the allotment was at one accepted as a war-time expedient. We have, however, arrived at a further stage of development. Allotments are now recognised as being an all-time necessity.

    The education of public opinion along this line has been rapid at it is complete. In London, for example, in August 1914 there were some 500 organised plot holders. At the the end of 1916 there were 6000. In August 1918 there were over 50,000, and this number was being constantly added to. Taking the country as a whole there were by August 1918, according to the calculations of the Board of Agriculture, upwards of 1,500,000 allotments , with a total produce of as many tons, and the total value of the produce, calculated at the then current rates, was estimated at 15 millions sterling. We may, therefore, safely come to the conclusion that the allotment has come to stay.

    Prior to the Great War. however. there were those who saw in the allotment a valuable national asset, not only in regard to the production of food, but from a health and social point of view. Among them was the late Joseph Fels, who saw that in the land of a nation, rightly used. lay the health, happiness, and prosperity of that nation, and that idle land was a national eyesore and a national crime. He, having demonstrated in Philadelphia the practical value of cultivating waste pieces of land in that city, introduced the idea to London by founding in 1907 the Vacant Land Cultivation Society.

    The object of this Society was to utilise the vacant sites in our large cities for food growing purposes. It was up-hill work, and at the end of 1914, after seven or eight years effort, only some 400 plot holders had been enrolled in London. , and one or two outposts established in the provinces. The difficulty was not to induce people to cultivate plots but to secure land for cultivation.

    Even during the two years which followed the outbreak of war, although the demand for allotments increased in volume, land on every hand was lying idle. It required an Order under that drastic measure, the Defence of the Realm Act, to secure possession of land for which the demand was so urgent and the need so plain. The result was immediate and phenomenal. Within a year from the putting into operation of the Cultivation of Lands Orders [1916] the plot holers of the V.L.C.S. alone increased to over 6000, and the value of production raised in that year from this source from previously derelict land was estimated at over £60,000.

    The V.L.C.S. took a leading part in the formation of the National Union of Allotment Holder, which body is now organising allotment societies throughout the country. The objects of the Nation Union are: to secure land in every district, urban and rural; ensure that it shall be used to the most effective manner and give to the plot holders [1] instruction as necessary; l[2] to assistance in the shape of lectures, demonstrations, shows, etc,; [3] advice on the purchase of seeds, etc, on the co-operative principle, and practical help in the over-coming of any difficulties.

    It required Armageddon to bring home to the British people the extent of their dependence on outside sources for their daily existence. But the allotment movement has demonstrated that, given access to land, the people of this country can, and will, put an end to the danger of food shortage. It has also shown the advantage to be gained by the bringing into close touch and association all classes of the community, thus breaking down class and social barriers, moulding individual characters and uniting all sections of the community, a result that must have a far-reaching effect upon the home life of the Nation."




    When you read the above a lot of the thinking then is still as important and relevant today. I don't think they managed to realise their ambitions to make the country independent of imported foods though!!



     
  11. Phil A

    Phil A Guest

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    Eels.

    We all know them, and most of them are amazed by them. From the tiny glass eels that hatch in the rivers of Europe, less than an inch long, they swim in their millions across the sea, a couple thousand miles to an area known as the Sargasso Sea.

    There, they mature and mate, only to return to the rivers of Europe to start the whole process all over again.

    Why would they do such an epic journey ?

    A long time ago, about 100 million years ago, the salt water living eels must have found a survival advantage in swimming up the rivers to produce their young.

    Maybe there were less casualties than producing in the estuaries, no one knows for sure, just that it must have worked for the eels.

    What the eels didn't realise was that the estuary was getting wider.

    Each generation swam down the rivers and across the estuary to the seaweed laden breeding grounds, not realising that it was getting 2 inches further away each year.

    Now, 100 Million years later, the estuary has become the Atlantic Ocean, but the Eels still swim across to the breeding grounds:DOH:
     
  12. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    I hate catching eels, Ziggy! They climb straight up your line and then knot every thing up. The strange thing is that if you can get them on their backs they'll stop wriggling!
     
  13. Phil A

    Phil A Guest

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    Can't legally catch them anymore, the Environment agency put a ban on taking eels from any river or still water and 6 miles out to sea. Not just us, but the whole of the EU.

    You are right though, its like trying to unhook a wriggling ball of slime, always know where your towel is.:D
     
  14. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    So far in this Thread I've covered various subjects but never anything about the view on Cat's that was being published in Gardening books back in 1900. Having read previous posts in other Threads about Moggies and their pro's and con's I thought this might be of interest.
    I'm going to put in the whole extract so it's fairly long, and you know what to do, ease off the braces, slacken your belt, kick off the clogs, sit on the garden bench and light the gas lamp - because you're back in the age before World War 1.

    "CATS IN THE GARDEN

    Gardeners have the idea that Cats are very undesirable visitors of the garden; thus in some works by us we find articles on "How to get rid of Cats" and illustrations of various "Cat Teasers".

    But we are not willing to admit that cats are so undesirable are they are made out to be. Some cats are very destructive, but so are some dogs, and dogs are frequently more destructive than cats. Stray cats and dogs alike are unwelcome, on account of their undesirable habit of "foraging", but the domestic pussy cat is quite capable of walking up and down the grass path between the herbaceous borders admiring the flowers.

    Have you ever seen a pussy, reader, enjoying an evening stroll in the flower garden? It is an amusing sight. Quite slowly she walks down the path, her head in air, stopping in the manner of a connoisseur from time to time, to admire the various flowers. She is fond of gay flowers and pleasant smells quite as much as you are, reader, and she regularly enjoys herself walking about studying flowers so demurely.


    But should this harmless creature be regarded as an enemy of the gardener? She does not harm. She merely views the gardener's handiwork. and perhaps laughs at him a little sometimes, saying to herself "If this were my garden I could make it much nicer. I should have some big beds of Catmint to roll in, and some large cushions of Rock-foil to sit upon.


    Perhaps the gardener does not like his work being criticised by cats. But why should he object, I wonder? If he were to build a bridge instead of making a garden, it would be open to for anyone from the veriest tramp to the greatest nobleman to criticise it. After all, cats are not great critics. so he must not much mind; they put their backs up when they are annoyed at the gardener putting two clashing colours together, and they purr when they reach a large group of plants that especially pleases them; but that is about as far as they go.


    We are glad that Miss Jekyll [one of our value contributors] bears out our appreciation of the domesticated pussy in one of her books. We consider that a pussy who is appreciative of flowers should be made a friend of by the gardener, and then she will probably repay him in her "working hours" - for of course even domesticated cats works very hard - by guarding his beds of small seeds from troublesome sparrows.


    The above remarks apply to the domesticated pussy. The busy-body tom-cat, who is as uneducated as he is active, is no real friend of the gardener. He tears across the garden in false pursuit of rats and mice, scratches up borders trying to find their nest - though they seldom if ever make nests in so public a place, - jumps up trees, and springs on to choice shrubs in attempting to catch birds, and in a word, does untold damage in a very short time. Such cats should be kept out of the garden as completely as possible; they are very useful in the stable-yard, but they must be regarded as unfit to meet or converse with the ladylike domesticated pussy"




    I don't know about you, guys, but doesn't that seem typical?? The male cat is getting the blame for doing damage, while the female gets all the compliments and glory, and it's not so different in the Human world is it?


    Here's an extract about how they dried fruit and vegetables 100 years ago.

    "DRYING OF FRUITS AND VEGETABLES


    A word may be said here as to the drying of one's own fruit, etc, at home, simply using the sun or oven. The former is a splendid dryer, but, unfortunately, in the greater part of this country there are seldom many successive days of hot sunshine, and artificial heat has to be resorted to. Now where an ordinary kitchen range is heated by coal, there is always a certain amount of heat which need not be allowed to waste, as it will help nicely with the drying of one's produce.


    The first thing necessary is to provide some trays for drying, and these can be easily be made at home by tacking together four strips of wood about 3" deep and stretching coarse muslin or canvas over the frame when finished, tacking this down.


    The produce about to be dried is spread on the tray, one layer deep, prior to exposing to the heat. It is impossible to state any definite length of time required for drying special fruits, etc, as so much depends up the sun or oven heat and how long it is continuous . Care and patience are both required when one is conducting drying operations, and it should always be remembered that the produce is to be dried and not cooked, therefore the heat must only be gradual and never too intense, as if once the fruit becomes hardened, it will never be properly dried. The temperature should be between 160f and 200f and it is a good plan always to leave the oven door open while produce is inside, in order to avoid any danger of overheating, and also to allow the moisture to escape outwards.


    When the produce is thoroughly dried, the best method of storage is to keep it in bottles or tines away from the air, but frequent examination is advisable, and if there are any signs of damp, spread the contents again on the tray, placing it in the oven for an hour or so.


    The following dry very successfully:


    Apple rings, apricots, currants, grapes [for raisins] , pears [halved], and plums.
    Beans and shredded carrot, peas, etc for soups, also onions, will dry equally successfully."


    In those days, over a hundred years ago, electric ovens, micro-wave ovens and even gas ovens weren't in use so things were a lot more difficult then requiring different techniques and more attention.



     
  15. Scrungee

    Scrungee Well known for it

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    Any of those old books got a pic of this old Suttons Seeds tin of mine as I'd be interested how old it is. Apparently Huntley & Palmers who were also based in Reading made their seed tins for them.

    [​IMG]
     
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