FROM THE OLD BOOK

Hi Scrungee, well, I've had a look through my books and a lot of them refer to Sutton's Seeds. I couldn't find a picture of a Sutton tin but there is a clue in your picture.

Sutton's didn't start business until 1806 and didn't get the Royal Warrant from Queen Victoria until 1858. On your box I couldn't see a Royal Warrant emblem but it did say on the side of the top lid "ROYAL SEED ESTABLISHMENT, READING" . Since they couldn't refer to their seeds as "ROYAL" unless they'd received the Royal Warrant that places the tin after 1858. I've seen a few seed tins over the years and my first thought when I saw the photo of the tin was "1880's" but, without a proper reference,. you can safely say it was made from 1858 onwards.

So is the tin younger or older than you??:D

 

I didn't see the inscription about the 500 medals awarded. I'll riffle through the books again to see if I can find a mention.

 

That's an interesting site, Ziggy, I don't think many firms have a site on their actual history, at least it backs up what my books say on Suttons.

There are some clues on Scrungee's tin as to the date but the only real way is to ask Sutton's as Scrungee suggested.

 

Just checking my thread subscriptions

 

There are some plants that I've thought about collecting and the Auricula is one of them. Again when browsing through the old books I came across this piece about them - it's 100 years ago and gas light time:

"AURICULA - HISTORICAL NOTES

This has, in it's day, been one of the most famous of florist's flowers. It's history goes back into a period when the student of floricultural lore has an immense amount of material to draw upon. Without indulging in speculations as to whether it was known to the Romans, for it's native home is the Alps, we can certainly trace it back to a starting point too remote to allow us to follow up it's progress with any degree of detail.

In old English it was commonly called Bear's Ears, the French and Italian popular names are equivalent, i.e: Oreille d'ours and Orrecchia d'orso. Bauhin in 1569 named it Auricula ursi, from which it is evident that the other names are mere translations.

Other botanist writers gave it different appellations. For instance, in Mathiolus [1579] it will be found illustrated and described under the name of Sanicle. Clusius [1601] gives several figures of it under the name of Auricula ursi and devotes a whole chapter to it in the third book of his History of Rare Plants. John Gerarde in his Herbal [1597] devotes chapter cclxii to an account.

As time went on and the cultivation of the Auricula increased and was subjected to the severe rules of the standard set up by the florists, so the llierature at home and abroad developed. It is a very voluminous subject and one must be a specialist to understand and absorb it.

In the North of England and Midland Counties the culture of the Auricula among the Weavers and artisans became quite a mania. On the continent, especially in Flanders, the Auricula was much appreciated and widely grown by enthusiasts

In one old treatise printed in Brussels in 1732 the names of the most famous growers of the day are given with their places of residence. The reader will not fail to notice that many of these places have since become notorious by virtue of the prominent part they played in the Great War, 1914-1918.

The Auriculas when in bloom were usually staged in pots on stands called Theatres. Maddock the great Quaker florist of Walworth, followed Thompson of Newcastle and Hudson of the same town with one of the first of the serious treaties on Auricula culture. this was in 1792.

It is really wonderful to notice at that time the large number of florists there were who were occupied with cultivating this flower for sale and exhibition. The plants were sold at prices varying from a shilling each to about 3 guineas - that being the price asked for Maddocks Invincible. Collections of 300 plants named, two plants of each, were offered at £35. Smaller collections proportionately less, down to 25 plants un-named at 10s; the best Auricula seed fetched 10 guineas an ounce.

The flower is essentially a poor man's favourite, hardy and requiring but little space; it is one of the choicest of our florists flowers. In later years there have been many eminent amateurs, besides Nurserymen, who have specialised in the Auricula. Messrs, Lightbody Groom, Horner, C. Turner, and others have all done good work in connection with the flower."

From one scent to another, the use of fish as a manure over a hundred years ago. Hold your nose!

"FISH AS MANURE

Rotten fish is about one of the foulest smelling materials there is; but it is also one of the best manues where a phosphatic and humic manure is required. Thus full advantage should be taken of supplies by gardeners on the coast., and the production of the land will be enormously increased. We give below a few brief particulars of the various forms of fish available and the modes of using them as manures:

BAD FISH - In large fishing towns after a very big catch it often happens that it is impossible in warm weather to dispose of all of the supplies before some of the fish gets what is popularly known as "touched". In bald language the heat quickly makes it go bad unless it is stored on ice. A supply of this bad fish is often available in large towns, for if a barrel is opened and the fish is not all that it ought to be, that barrel is condemned as unfit for human food, which means that it is as a rule sent off to a destructor to be burnt. Gardeners should secure a supply of this, preferably in the early Autumn or winter, and either dig it in in a raw state, or mix it with soil in the manner described in a succeeding paragraph. It is very useful for most vegetables, fruit trees, and the more gross feeding hardy perennials.

FISH BONES - A large supply of these is usually available at most fishing towns, and some can usually be obtained very cheaply at the fish markets in the larger inland towns where much fish is consumed. The bones make a very rich phosphatic manure if dissolved om sulphuric acid in the same way as ordinary bones, and this material can be used for most crops at the rate of 1oz per square yard.

FISH HEADS AND TAILS - These are often available in fair quantities at large fish markets both on the coast and inland. To use them they should be well chopped up with a sharp spade and preferably mixed with half their own bulk of hot fermenting stable dung. The heap should then be covered with soil and allowed to mellow down for a couple of months, after which the material can be dug in at the rate of a good forkful per square yard for vegetables, and rather less for flowers.

Another way of preparing them is to mix them with about a quarter of their own bulk of wood ashes, making the material into a heap with a hole at the top. On to this. human urine is poured until the mass is thoroughly saturated; then the heap is covered with several inches of soil and a slate put over the hole. In about a weeks time the process of soaking the mass with urine is repeated, and the weekly soakings are continued until the whole has rotted down into a more or less soft mass of very rich, strong smelling humus/ This material is invaluable for light soils, and a big barrowful per rod will be by no means too much to apply in the late winter or spring. Fish heads or tails when buried in the soil without previous treatment take a considerable time to dissolve and thus are not so valuable."

 

The combination of urine and stinking fish would have a stink radius of several miles. I mean, just think, there you are strolling down a country lane on a beautiful sunny day and you get your lungs full of well gone urine and rotting fish - it's just got to wipe the smile off your face and change your day!

 

Having continued browsing through the old books of over 100 years ago. I thought we'd go from the "muck and smells" of the last extracts to something different. The next three extracts are on the views, over a hundred years ago, they had on Old Gardens, how to treat Gnat bites, and Japanese Gardens. So put the wheelbarrow down, wipe your boots, walk into the parlour, sit in the cane chair, and light the gas lamps.

"GARDEN DESIGN ON OLD FASHIONED LINES

When considering the older gardens in relation to those of quite modern times we note that, except in special cases, they were much smaller in size, and for the most part closely walled or fenced. In the early Middle Ages the largest gardens were those attached to the religious houses, almost entirely for food production, with a few flowers only for ceremonial decorations.

With few exceptions it is not until Tudor times that we know of gardens purely for pleasure, but then, with the new security of the country and the building of noble houses of the palatial, and many more of the manorial classes, the need was felt for gardens for delight, and every house must have it's suitable accompaniment of flowers and blossoming shrubs and trees.

The earlier gardens were nearly always of square form, and enclosed by wall or moat, for thought the actual need of means of defence no longer existed, the feeling of a desire for safety and seclusion remained, and deer and wolves were still at large.

Whether the house was large or small, it was usual to have a quiet forecourt between it and the road, with a paved path to the door passing between plots of grass to right and left, but without any special display of flower; and perhaps no pleasanter way of access to a house has ever been devised. A large place would sometimes have two such forecourts with a handsome gatehouse between the two.

The flower garden was on the farther side of the house, with a wide terrace running close to the building and overlooking the parterre. It was usual for this garden to be on a level a few feet lower than that of the house, with either a central flight of steps, or steps down at each end of the terrace.

Later, in Stuart times, came ornaments in stone, marble and lead. The lines of the garden were kept straight and orderly, and those gardens that remain or have been designed with the same intention have a kind of homely dignity that accords well with our national character and our English landscape, as also with the houses to which they belong. Such gardens are specially suitable to the dignified style of building of the eighteenth century, when they had settled down into a character that may be described as having the qualities of sanity, serenity, and soberiety. For all good gardening has it's foundation in common sense.

The old designer accepted the conditions of the place, and moulded them to the most reasonable form; he avoided anything of strain or affectation, and drew no line that was not to some good purpose or definite intention. It is true that, when our gardening began in Tudor times, various accessories were employed that we should now consider frivolous and unworthy, such as gilded bird-cages and hanging objects of coloured glass to flash in the light. But as our gardening grew to more definite form these were cast aside, and in our English garden went on in it's own quiet way, avoiding also in later time the lavish over-adornment of the French and the petty intricacies of the Dutch styles. It would be well in these days, when gardening possibilities are so vast and the designer may be tempted to run wild, that he should restrained himself and strive to regain the older simplicity and charm, remembering that the first purpose of a garden is to be a place of quiet beauty such as will give delight to the eye and repose and refreshment to the mind"

We've all been bitten by various insects in our gardening time and we have modern medicines to deal with any reactions to the bites. But here's how they dealt with Gnat bites around 1880:

"Gardeners are often sorely tried by Gnat bites, which, though not usually considered serious, may turn into case of blood poisoning. Thus it is advisable to protect oneself from these annoying creatures, and this can be easily done by lightly rubbing the face, neck, hands and wrists with Oil of French Geranium. a non proprietary article obtainable from most Chemists.

Gnats bites may be soothed and quickly cured if a little Oil of Myrbane is rubbed over them. Neither of these oils have an unpleasant odour, nor a detrimental effect on the skin, and are comparatively inexpensive."

I've never had the incentive or courage to try to copy a Japanese garden because it has to been done with great thought and research to get it right - and I've been shown around supposedly Japanese gardens by some very proud owners when in fact it was a caricature of what it should of be. Here's how Gardeners over a hundred years ago thought it should been done.

"JAPANESE GARDENING

Interesting adaptations of the Japanese style of gardening are often to be seen nowadays. In the Land of the Rising Sun the laying out of a garden is controlled by certain fixed laws which are only partially understood by Westerners. Still, some delightful effects can be secured by following the leading rules on which the Japanese gardener works.

A Japanese garden makes a strong appeal to the amateur on account of the fact that it can be developed on a very small plot of ground/ In planning, one of the most important points is to consider the effect of the garden as a whole. Every plant, and each piece of rockwork, must be thought of in it's relation to the general scheme. All parts of the garden must be true to their particular characters.

Any elevations , such as may exist or be built up, will be suggestive of of mountainous country, and the plants must be in keeping with the idea. Dwarf or stunted trees and shrubs give a wind-swept appearance, and are well adapted to the hilly parts of the garden. Low, flat areas of ground give the impression of pasture, and should be planted with subjects having a free habit of growth.

No Japanese garden is complete without water. This may be in the form of quite a tiny pool, but if a stiff outline is avoided the pond will be one of the most attractive features. On the banks of the water moisture loving plants can be allowed a freedom of growth that is natural in such situations. If possible the placing of a small island in the pool is to be recommended. Where the water can be narrowed down to give the effect of a stream, a bridge might be introduced. In situations where there is a natural supply of water more ambitious schemes may be attempted.

Native Japanese plants should predominate in the garden. Especially suitable are the spring flowering trees so widely used in the East, such as the almond, cherry, crab apple etc. These will usher in the Spring with a wonderful wealth of blossom. Azaleas are useful for giving fine splash of colour in the early summer, whilst wisteria should be freely used for training over pergolas.

Japanese irises should of course be made a great feature of in the garden, and a selection of chrysanthemums will give a good effect in the fall. A useful small tree is the Japanese Maple, of which there are numerous varieties. Most of these provide splendid autumn tints just when there is a need for colour.

Other interesting plants which are very suitable for, if not inseparable from Japanese Gardens include, Anemone Japonica, Forsythia Suspensa, Japanese Heaths, Japanese Lilies, Paeonies, Physalis Alkekengi, Primula Japonica, and Tricyrtis Hirta.

 

I've had a busy week this week but have tried to find time to have a read and a browse, especially in the old books of gardening. So here's a few extracts from over a hundred years ago before WWI about the use they put Ashes and Compost to, and the ever present flies.
So take a break from whatever you're doing, go into the parlour, sit in the cane chair, light the gas lamp and think back to the late 1880's.

ASHES - Their Value in the Garden

Gardeners divide ashes into two groups, wood ashes and furnace ashes. The first group includes all the ashes gained by burning woody garden rubbish, as well as that gained by burning such green material as potato tops, weeds, ivy leaves, etc. These ashes are most valuable for the garden; they can either be used when digging or trenching in the winter at the rate of a pound per cubic yard of soil, or when sowing such root crops as parsnips, carrots , long beetroot, etc, at the rate of 4 ozs per square yard of surface soil.




In every case they should be got under cover as soon as they are produced; if rain falls on them most of the potash they contain is washed out of them, and they are then valueless for crops.


The second group. furnace ashes, includes coal ashes, as well as the ashes produced in coke burning furnaces. Some people favour the use of these for lightening heavy clay soils; they may be good for mechanically improving the worst clays, but we prefer to keep them off the garden soil. The coke or cinder grit they invariably contain does the crop little good, and in some cases scabs on potatoes have been traced to ashes. Ashes, if used at all freely, also make the soil much too porous, with the result that crops become dry very easily in summer and much labour for watering is required.

Furnace ashes are, however, decidedly useful for making rough paths in the garden. But ash paths, since they "pick up" in bad weather, must not be made too freely in the garden.

Furnace ashes form also a very useful medium in which to plunge pot plants in the summer, since they effectually prevent worms from entering the pots. For this purpose they should be put through a half inch riddle to remove clinkers, etc."

I know ashes get discussed a lot on this forum but I don't know of anyone using furnace ashes. Has anyone used or know of anyone using them?

"COMPOSTS
The question of providing a suitable compost for the various plants he cultivates is often a source of much anxiety to the beginner in Greenhouse gardening, and although the present race of growers are not nearly so exacting in the preparation of potting compost as those of the "old school", even today, when conditions are made much more favourable to plant growth under glass than formerly, it is useless expecting the best results to follow if a plant is not given something approaching an ideal compost for the roots to feed upon.

Without wishing to make light of what experts have written regarding the most suitable composts for various popular Greenhouse plants, we may fairly claim that any one having a stack of really good fibrous loam, peat, and well decayed leaves from Oak or Beech trees, together with some sharp silver sand and well decayed manure, has at his disposal the material for making up a compost well suited for any plant of which he is likely to undertake the cultivation.

Good fibrous loam which has been stacked for at least a year or more, should be the foundation of all composts lfor what are termed soft wooded Greenhouse plants, and if to this is added one third good flaky leaf soil, and the same of well decayed manure, also an eighth part coarse sand, a compost capable of growing magnificent Fuchsias, Geraniums, Heliotropes, and almost all the half hardy tender Greenhouse plants or annuals will be at his disposal.

Plants of more robust growth than those mentioned, or others expected to remain in the same pot for a considerable time, may have a little of one of the advertised plant foods added.

Azaleas, Heaths, Palms, and the majority of Ferns appreciate good fibrous peat and plenty of sand, in fact many growers add nothing else, but where peat is not easily obtained equal parts fibrous loam may be added.

Arums, Agapanthuses, Clivia, and similar plants having large fleshy roots, prefer a compost in which good yellow loam predominates. Generally speaking a very rich soil is not desirable for plants having variegated or highly coloured foliage. a poor soil being more likely to bring out the various markings than one made rich with manure.

Cucumbers and tomatoes give heavier crops when planted in turfy loam, to which not more than one third of old manure has been added at the start, reliance being placed upon the judicious use of artificial or liquid manure to maintain these in a fruitful condition.

Old potting soil from any of the above, if put through a fine sieve, answers well for pricking out bedding plants of all kinds, while loam, leaf soil, and sand in equal parts form a good striking compost for cuttings of the most popular Greenhouse plants.

It should be noted that thorough mixing of each of the above composts is of vital importance, and a sharp look out should be kept for harmful insects.

During the winter months the compost should be prepared. and allowed to stand in the Greenhouse for a few days before using, in order that it may get warmed through."


I might have a go at those compost recipes to see how good they are.

"FLIES

Flies includes many kinds of insects. For instance, there are the sawflies, the houseflies, bluebottles, and the offal flies common on heaps of manure. It is about the last which we wish to say a word or two, and we prefix our remarks by saying that flies are most unnecessary as well as undesirable visitors to the garden.

The gardener should aim at cleanliness in everything and then flies will not be troublesome. His manure heaps if stacked otherwise than in the compost yard should have a really good covering of soil, then the heaps will not breed flies and other filth. Rotted vegetable matter should not be left lying about, neither should fresh vegetable refuse such as cabbage leaves etc. The pit in which vegetable matter decays should be either covered over with boards, or the vegetable matter itself covered with lime and soil/ Should flies in spite of these precautions still appeart, water animal or vegetable matter with a weak solution of formaline to kill the eggs.

In glasshouses every precaution should be taken against allowing the flies to become a plague, Fly papers should be hung up right through the Spring, Summer, and Autumn months, and then papers will renewing frequently especially as they are apt to become less effective if the houses are always being syringed down.

The gardener should also clean out his ditches more often than he does, mixing the ditch sludge [which breeds billions of flies] with lime and earth. After it has been stacked for about nine months it can be dug into the vegetable garden, where it acts as a somewhat powerful manure".

 

When I were a lad....

My father used to put all the ash from our house fire on the garden and dig it in. We were on London clay and he used to say that it helped break the clay up.

Of course, it may have been that he didn't want to bother having to get rid of it. He didn't grow any vegetables as he said that he did enough of that during the war and that there were good markets near us.

 

When you were a lad,Shiney:yess:, Nelson was just thinking of joining the Navy

Before we go any further would you give Julie [newbie] on her Thread about plants for her small border instructions on your method on how to keep cats away:D

I dug a veg patch for my late Father-in-law in his garden and found I was digging into an area of ashes. Knowing it wasn't good for vegs I had to dig them all out and put fresh soil in. It appears that they were put there when the house was built by previous owners, and the soil wasn't all that clayey really.

 

We rarely have trouble with cats as Oscar the cat does border patrol for us. If he doesn't approve then you don't get in. You don't mess with Oscar :yess: