Global warming....

I'm so unhappy about the way that the planet is going that Husband and I decided not to have kids because of it and know other couples with the same feelings. Global Warming is certainly happening. 1st Brother is a scientist, 2nd Brother is a scientist, their wives scientists too, Aunt and Uncle works in the UN and the list goes on -- I feel informed. I've travelled and seen things for myself too.

I'm 38 years old and my belief is that the human race will continue for a while longer but since I'm a fan of natural and clean water, animals and plants and the wonder of biodiversity, and rights and fairness for my fellow man -- I feel my parents generation tipped the balance and future generations are on a slippery, uncertain slope.

That said, we do all I can to be genuinely green, recycling, being positive, appreciating wildlife etc etc but I'm often, too often, outnumbered.

 

I don't believe in it.

The temperatures and climate have been evolving and changing since Samuel peeps and beyond.

Personally it is of no worry to me. In any case the bigest contributors of Co2 are not Europe or the US but the developing world.

By the time anything major happens ill be dead and buried.

 

That's the big problem in reducing carbon output. Its extremely patronising of "the west" to tell India, China and Africa that they can't have the same lifestyle as westerners because its damaging the planet.

 

Exactly what we were discussing in college the other day:(

 

Lets say we have a jar containing a single bacteria that divides every minute - i.e. the population doubles every minute. The jar is exactly the right size so that the jar will be full at midnight.

Q: At what point is the jar half full?

A: One minute to midnight.

Q: At what point are the bacteria worried about how little space they have left?

A: You can answer that one! At 11:59 they may think they have a problem. At 11:58 the jar is a quarter full. At 11:57 only 1/8th and so on. So with only a few minutes to go they will appear to have loads of space ...

Q: At 11:59 they find three other empty jars - i.e. equal to four times they total space they have EVER known. Great! How long do they take to fill it?

A: 2 minutes :(


Another couple of facts about exponential growth:


For growth at a constant rate you can use 70 as the means of calculating when something will double.

Population growth, worldwide, is about 1% (UK is less). Doesn't sound much? 70-divided-by-1 is 70 years - so the population will double in 70 years - average lifetime. 70 years later it will be 4 times as much, in 140 years 16 times as much ... still got to feed everyone, provide them with fuel / cars / houses / TVs / ...

Take oil. I think the growth is about 7% per annum (if that's wrong use your own preferred figure). 70-divided-by-7 is 10. So usage doubles every 10 years.

Moreover (assuming constant growth, which is approximately the case for oil, given the odd recession and Opec-supply-reduction) then the amount used in the NEXT 10 years will EQUAL the total used SINCE FIRST USE.

So, when Oil runs out, to get ANOTHER 10 years supply you need as much as has EVER been found / drilled!

Extrapolate any constant-growth factor - CO2, National-debt, fuel-usage, population-growth ... and, speaking for myself, one comes to the conclusion that we have to have an impact on the planet, AND the point at which polliticians and the population will do something sufficiently dramatic about it will be too late :(

 

I agree with Pro the planet has been going through phases mini ice ages,global warming etc for millenia the only difference now is that this global warming episode is man made and has taken place in a very short period of time,the planet will survive the human race in its present format will not,we have been too greedy and raped the planet,we are now doing too little too late,the next century will shape the future for our ancestors.Not all doom and gloom though the other day an asteroid missed us by 1.6 lunar distances(which is very close atronomically) so it just shows how lucky we are. have a good day.:thumb:

 

Natural evolution
It's been happening for thousands of years, long before we were here.
Just another exuse to have a protest and tax us.

LOL

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that the lifestyle that the human race is living is affecting the planet to a degree, what I don`t agree with is that we are solely responsible for the current shift in climatic conditions and nor should we feel obliged to change our lifestyles so as to `save the planet` for our future generations. Is it not also true that the hole in the ozone layer is shrinking? Don`t hear much shouting about that.

I wonder what the levels of co2 where and how many aerosols must have been used to set off/ finish the ice age? :cnfs:

 

Sorry folks, but I'm staggered at the "I'm all right Jack" replies.

People need to reduce, reuse and recycle. There are not enough natural resources to provide Oil, Coal, Metal, etc. for ever. Throwing away a mobile phone every 6 months - because your contract gives you a new one "free" (Ha!ha!) - is disastrous for the planet.

If you go down the "reduce" route then you will also reduce CO2 emissions and save yourself some money, plus reduce the amount of non-renewable resources we are all consuming.

Replace your car with something that does 50% more MPG, drive a bit more frugally, replace light bulbs with energy efficient ones where possible, turn off everything rather than leaving on standby ... insulate your house and install solar water heating if you have a suitable roof aspect (government should be doing FAR more to encourage these two - plenty of building "trades" on short time at present, economy could be stimulated by getting them to insulate every building in the UK) ...

That in turn will help turn the tide. Even if the Global Warming thing does turn out to be rubbish (which I doubt) there is a very urgent need to reduce the non-renewal resources we all consume.

There is also a need to halt the growth in population (I have no idea how to crack that one, all routes are heinous - one child per family? Stop vaccinating children and treating disease? Have more wars?)

Do you use plastic supermarket bags rather than taking a shopping basket with you? If so why? Are you just waiting until government bans them before you make the effort to keep a shopping basket in your car?

My prediction is that our generation(s) have had it best. Children born in the 21st century are going to be the ones that start of have the hardship of all the damage that has been caused, and doing something now to give them a chance of sorting it out is imperative.

We have reduced our household utility bills [Electricity, Water and Oil] by 1/3rd for each of last 2 years (i.e. 50% in total). This year we replaced the oil boiler with a log boiler. Chopping up logs is obviously less convenient than just burning oil or gas, and the installation costs were significant, but nonetheless I am putting my money where my mouth is.

We will add solar panels this year, and if the site proves suitable we'll install a wind turbine. We replaced our 20-30MPG vehicles 3 years ago with 50MPG vehicles. When we next replace them we will target 75MPG vehicles, maybe better will then be available.

Like many / most here we grow our own veg; we always have, but in the last 12 months we've become much more serious about growing all that we need, and all that we can. There are very few high-air-miles food products that we buy anymore - a few fruits in the Winter that the kids are less fussy about eating ... we don't need Mangos (wretched things don't travel well anyway!) or other exotic fruits. I will grow some Kiwi plants this year, and I'm trying pineapples and having a look at bananas in the conservatory.

There is lots that can be done, and government are painfully slow starting (the recession was the final kiss-of-death - if last Summer's high oil prices had stuck lots would have happened by now) but nonetheless it needs each inidivudal to make a start - each journey starts with but a single step, as the saying goes.

 

Well said Kristen. I would also add this country needs to start depending less on imports and producing more of its own goods and food. While the government is the power to make this happen, we as individuals can make a difference even just by buying British. Ironically, the recession might actually make this a reality, that is if our narrow minded government looks at making protectionism a reality for the UK.

 

Tragic that we were self sufficient during the war, and haven't been since.

We have exceptionally high standards in animal welfare, which increases the cost of rearing the animals of course, and then buy meat from countries that don't give a fig ...

... and then we repackage the imported meat in the UK and stupidly give it a "British" label.

There is EC legislation preventing labelling that encourages member states to buy-their-own, rather than goods from other-states, but I'm always amused at how the French ride roughshod over such legislation (quite rightly IMHO) whilst the Brits just tow-the-Euro-line. Lots of blackboard-and-chalk signs saying "Beef from XXX region" [of France] next to the produce in French shops / supermarkets.

Of course the French are fussy about the food that they buy, will pay extra for quality & taste, and the British are renowned for buying cheap - hence farmers then breed / rear livestock for that purpose - bred to fatten faster / cheaper, and then 20 years later we discover that the meat they produce is bad for us - the wrong sorts of fats - much like you get when teenagers are force-fed and become obese.

P.S. Yes, I agree, the fact that the Pound has fallen so dramatically against other currencies will make home grown products much cheaper than the foreign equivalent, but GB goods will still be the same price as before - i.e. expensive compared to the price of imports last year.

I was in France last week. Everything the same price as last year (give-or-take) but the Pound down from 1.5E to 1E, so a fall of 1/3rd - but that actually means a price rise, to me, of 50%!

i.e. last year I could buy a 1.50E item for £1, this year it costs me £1.50 - so the 30% fall in Pound means that buying foreign goods has risen by 50% ..

 

I don't know if you included me in the I'm alright Jack group Kristen, but I have a foot in both camps.

I do care, I care very much. I am far too much in love with this country and it's beautiful wildlife and countryside to be complacent about it.

But, I am highly suspicious of a government-any government regardless of party, that allows a local council to send recyclable material to India for landfill, allows them to charge you for going over some arbitrary limit on filling up your wheelie bin, whilst at the same time, sells off massive swathes of land to shoddy and unscrupulous developers for houses that stand empty-or are not fit for habitation ( just a quick look at the programme houses from hell, builders from hell etc tells you that much).

Governments also send unqualified and ignorant so called "officials" via plane to go and visit the polar ice caps to look for themselves at something qualified scientists have informed them of.



I agree that there is cause for concern about the population growth, and shudder to imagine what remedies spring to mind.

 

Population control in China worked well. At least in getting the massive population growth under control. What effect if had on the psyche of a whole generation of "only children" is another matter - one that is starting to make itself felt. India is looking at doing similar, but being a democracy it will be so much harder to enforce.

 

The childrens homes full of unwanted girl children, and the bodies of newborn children the finding of which has become a daily event tells me that it worksl-there are less children but the price is too high.

 

I can accept recycling and do, I cant see a problem in it. Same with efficient cars, boilers etc etc.

The problem with 'global warming' though is the word **GLOBAL**. India, China, Africa etc are spraying huge quantity's of organophosphates, running ancient loorys and cars, polluting watercourses, burning waste etc etc.

We have to accept that we are a tiny country and Co2 contributor. The more the government charges us in environmental taxes, the more the economic the production of goods in undeveloped countries becomes.

Find a lever to use on the undeveloped world and we might start to crack it. Not forgetting if its actually occurring.