GRIEVANCE AT WORK

Good luck for tomorrow, Nat!

 

Hi, Nat, firstly well done for carrying it through. Now, let's slow it down a bit and analyse what your bosses reaction has been. He's tried to stall you with the major difference is the hours and, as Clueless has pointed out, the hours factor is irrelevant [and he knows it]. So knowing he's now being challenged on the loose, non-contractual, illegal way he's employing people, and you've then refuted his reasons for paying you less and not supplying you with a proper contract he's offering some sort of compromise.

You say he offered to meet you "halfway"? Is that an offer to pay you the same rate as the others or a half way lesser rate? If it's the latter, do not accept it. He is required to pay the same rate to you as the other higher rate of pay employees doing the same job so accepting less would only be to his advantage as you would be accepting that there is a difference between you, on a lower rate, and those on a higher rate doing the same job.

He's already tried to get some "wriggle room" by telling you the primary reason why other other people are getting the higher rate for doing the same job is the difference in hours. I will tell you now that should this go to
Acas and an Industrial Tribunal that excuse would be laughed out of court. If you are doing the same job as another person and getting a lower rate he will lose his case in court. Your employer is not paying you one rate and another person a higher rate because he's ignorant of the Industrial Laws, he's doing it in defiance of the Industrial Laws for one thing and one thing only - to save money!

You should be payed the same higher rate as your employer is paying another person to do the same job. and you should be provided with a proper written contract. Your employer is going to pressurise you into compromising to his advantage, and it will be to his advantage, when all you're asking for is your legal rights
and the justice of being paid the proper rate for the job.

I'm betting that just before the meeting with you is the first time that he's read The Part-Time Workers Regulations!! Now he's trying to twist and bend the rules to his interpretation and advantage. Nat, stick by your guns and repeat to your employer that you want your legal entitlement of the same higher rate of pay as other people are being paid and that you want a written contract,

The question of upping your hours to 30 is a personal decision, but it is not a condition that the employer can set for him to pay you the higher rate! That is already your legal right. Your employer is going to try to think of "reasons" why he isn't paying you the higher rate and wriggle and wriggle. But I repeat if you don't compromise and stick to your guns to get your proper, fair and legal rights and it is taken to Acas and a Industrial Tribunal you will win and he will lose. Tribunal are vastly experienced in these kind of cases and
will stick to the law despite the weak and preposterous excuses the employers come up with.

Again, I wish you luck - and I hope you don't compromise because now the case seems to have become bigger with a friend also asking for the same rights - which means that the other part-time employees are now, willingly or unwillingly, depending on you.

 

Playing Devils Advocate; I've never worked at a company where everyone is paid the same. We all get different amounts depending upon our individual negotiating skills, results of annual appriasals, perceived usefullness (i.e. boss's pet) also some people have recently joined and get paid a 'market rate', others that have been there years tend to fall behind unless they threaten to leave. New starters coming in from University are on a much lower rate but are being 'fast tracked' so that they will get more in the long run (or so they are told). It's all a game I'm afraid Nat75; if the offer to meet you half way is not too far away from what you want you should seriously think about accepting it, obviously it isn't worth going to a Tribunal over a few pence an hour. Just my opinion and I wish you luck regardless.

 

And a very fine Devil's Advocate you would have made too, JWK - but for one thing - a true Devil's Advocate "plays" both sides and your argument only seem to favour the employer, even after reading it several times!!

Where you're working for an organisation, as you are, which is employing people at a fair wage, with a contract stating your conditions and you are able to negotiate your own wage, which is good for the employer because he has employees competing and working harder to gain a higher wage -Nat is not.

Nat is dealing with an employer who, despite your "argument", is employing people in direct confliction with the Industrial Laws, the legislation of which was brought into effect to bring about fair working and wage conditions between Employer and Employee. What Nat is doing is taking the first step to make her employer aware that he is treating her and her fellow part-time workers unfairly and illegally and so bring them closer to the conditions that you enjoy - but still a universe away.

So, as Daitheplant has said, and others, it's not just about Nat. Her friend has now joined her and the picture has got bigger. If Nat takes, your advice, JWK, and settles for a compromise, i.e.: a lesser wage than that she's legally and fairly got a right to. then the same poor conditions will continue to exist. The employer will be happy to pay less than he should to Nat and her friend and continue to treat the rest of the part time workers as he has in the past. Do you really think Nat should settle for a lesser wage than she is entitled to? - because should she do that she has lost what she was/is fighting for.


I've supported Nat and given her the best advice I can because all through my working life I've believed that fair and legal wages for a employee makes for a motivated and loyal employee. which is the best asset a company can. I've been brought in several times to turn a company around and found time and time again the firm was failing because it paid poorly, had poor management that in fact was bringing the company down and was completely distrusted by the employees. I had so many battles to get the Directors to recognise that giving fair and proper wages, working conditions, and a proper written contract was the way back to success and profit.

Luckily, when I got the "nod" to a re-organisation of the company I was able to bring in new trustworthy managers and get rid of the bad managers. But I found that every time I approached the employees I was met with complete distrust, insults, and hostility because they could not believe a Senior Manager was coming to them and saying that a. I would never lie to them, b. that I wanted to give them new contracts, or in the case of those with no contract their first contract, and those contracts would be open, honest and fair. Once I had got them to believe that, and it wasn't easy, I could turn the company around.

Her employer is not interested in creating the conditions you are working in, he is employing people, whatever their worth, at the lowest rate he can get away with - I don't think he's the type of employer you would like to be, or even consider being, employed by. I think that where the problem is that the reality of being paid a poor [illegal] wage, having no contract to protect you, being used and abused in the context of not being the legal and fair conditions, work and wage wise, is not fully recognised or appreciated by those having proper working conditions regarding wage and written contract. All I can say to those people is - try it and see how you like it.


So Nat, please don't accept a compromise, because by doing so you will agree that there is a proper and legal reason for you and your fellow part-time workers being paid a lesser wage than you are entitled to.

 

Hi Nat, I really don't think you've got anything to be regretful about. I know how difficult it is to stand up to Management, good or bad, and things have a habit of turning from "black and white " to a murky grey. I think you've had the courage to attempt to improve your pay and conditions, and having to compromise was a decision that only you, on the front line, could make.

Your Boss is now aware that he can't continue to ignore the rights of his part-time employees [although I am sure he will still try], and that his work force is more "aware" than he thought - so it's been a wake up call and education for him - and you are responsible for that, so stand up and take a bow!

I take it that by saying you were a chicken because of your friend wanting to settle you accepted the offered rate - or are you still sticking to the principle of gaining your legal higher rate?

Regarding the contract, Spruce is right, don't be in a hurry to sign it. Tell your Boss that you want to take it to a industrial law agency for them to peruse it. There's no hurry to sign the contract, next week would do if you do eventually agree to the conditions. If you don't agree to the conditions and what something changing and amending then say so to the Management. Never sign anything that you are not happy with.
The flexibility clause is pretty standard - so long as the other duties are one's that you have been trained in - and not just dropped into. [hr]
Hi Nat, Just a continuance of the last post as I was interrupted by a visitor.

The number of holidays is usually worked out on the annual ratio of hours worked per annum. You didn't say how days of holidays you get at this moment? In most companies full time workers do get more holidays than part-time workers. I have known firms where a part-timer worker actually worked more hours than the full time workers and consequently could demand the same amount of holidays.

Every firm [good or bad] does have a "right" to ask for a certain amount of flexibility from it's employees but it's up to you to decide how flexible you want to be. Some firms pressurise employees to the point where the firm comes before the family - and that is wrong. You are in control of how flexible you want to be.

The contract - does it state or mention the minimum number of hours of work you are given? Does it mention any hours or work at all?

We are all behind you, Nat, on whatever decision you take or make. I will repeat again that all you're asking for is your fair and legal rights. Just because the Boss has made an offer does not mean you have to take it for the sake of appearing "reasonable", or because your friend wanted to settle for less because it was better that nothing. What you were asking for originally was a fair and equal rate of pay for doing the same job as other people and a fair and open contract.

So whatever decision you make be assured we support you

 

Hi Nat, you have done really well so far and it was a good move for not signing it. Also it's not a sign of weakness by compromising, imagine if your boss had immediately given you what you asked for, you would still have some nagging doubt that you should have asked for more, so you are probably in the right ball park for how far you can push your boss.

Now you are getting down to the nitty gritty, it would be good to stick to your guns about the flexibility issue and ask for the higher rate.