Here is why our NHS and Local Government is utterly shafted

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. clanless

    clanless Total Gardener

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,201
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure.
    Location:
    North Wales
    Ratings:
    +7,630
    Some of the lamps also stay on all day and night - the photocell arrangement fails - we learn about these from the public - it used to be a case that a guy would go around checking the lights - not sure if this happens now - it's been a 'few' years since I was involved in street lighinting.

    Anyway, never mind all this - believe it or not - my 16 years old Peugeot 307 just passed it's MOT - unbelievable :blue thumb:
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • clanless

      clanless Total Gardener

      Joined:
      Jan 20, 2013
      Messages:
      3,201
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Gentleman of leisure.
      Location:
      North Wales
      Ratings:
      +7,630
      Council's are required by law to put aside a minimum amount of cash as a reserve fund.

      It's fair to say that many Council's did this and more in the day's before austerity - which is one reason why Council budgets were subjected to such savage cuts. The problem is that all the excess reserves have been used up to protect frontline services.

      We (the public) haven't yet felt the full impact of austerity on Council services - we've been cushioned by the use of reserves - the reserves are now gone - so hold onto your hat.

      More and more Council services will be provided by organisations whose motive is profit - the old days of providing the best possible service with the budget available are gone. I've seen Council's publish 'Commercial Strategies' - well that's not why I got into public service - and yet another reason why I am packing it in this year.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Friendly Friendly x 1
      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

        Joined:
        May 5, 2012
        Messages:
        28,543
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        Public Transport
        Location:
        At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
        Ratings:
        +53,666
        The trouble is @clanless, there is sufficient money going in to pay for the services needed and at a good level - - IF profit was taken out of the equation.
         
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • clanless

          clanless Total Gardener

          Joined:
          Jan 20, 2013
          Messages:
          3,201
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Gentleman of leisure.
          Location:
          North Wales
          Ratings:
          +7,630
          There isn't enough money coming in to maintain the current level of service - people moan when they see that a library is closing or that one of their refuse tips is closing - well this is because the money is needed to pay for the statutory services - primarily social care - which is itself under ever increasing pressure from the expanding elderly population

          I shouldn't be saying this but I will - Council's have relatively high overheads compared to the private sector - this is why we are closing Council run services and replacing with private sector provision. The cost of Council overheads outweighs the profits that would be made by the private sector - hence they cost less.

          Compare a Council run care home (if there are any left) with a private care home - one driven by the desire to meet the needs of the residents to the best of its ability and the other driven by the need to generate profits. We're moving towards more the latter because we can't afford the former.

          Both provide an acceptable level of care - the Council IMHO provide a better level of care.

          Council's will eventually end up as commissioning bodies - who don't provide services themselves but enter into contracts with the private sector to do so.

          I'm not making this up - it is a reality - I know of several Council's that are actively pursueing this model of service delivery. It may take a number of years but it's coming....
           
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • clueless1

            clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

            Joined:
            Jan 8, 2008
            Messages:
            17,778
            Gender:
            Male
            Location:
            Here
            Ratings:
            +19,598
            Last time I saw an advert for an executive position in council, the salary was in the high 50k. That was about 10 years ago when a similar role in the private sector would have commanded mid 30s.

            I spent over a decade on a government contract in a private company. My time was charged to the government at 750 per day for contract work plus 280 per day retainer. (I got a mere pittance of it). When my desk phone needed replacing the company that supplied it (a different Ltd entirely owned by the same company I worked for) it cost the government 300 quid just for a 20 quid phone. My pc was 3 grand despite me knowing I could buy one myself, retail, for 300. Even the lease for the building was passed on as an expense.

            An independent auditing firm, PWC, was put in to make sure the government got value for money. PWC charged a grand a day per consultant just to turn up.

            There is enough money. There's just too many greedy gits creating the bureaucracy needed to justify ridiculous payments for ridiculous expenses.

            The government's procurement rules don't help. Unless the rules have changed recently, and company has to be a limited company or plc over a certain size, with a certain very substantial turnover 2 years in a row. That means smaller companies can't possibly tender for work, meaning the larger companies have the government over a barrel.

            Those same procurement rules mean that if two government departments, or even two projects in the same department have overlapping requirements, the provider can't simply do both. They have to tender separately for both pieces of work. Both have to be budgeted for individually, and any resources have to be 100% dedicated to one project. In practical terms, as an example, when I developed software with common functionality for two different government projects concurrently ( because I only had to write the code once and it worked for both), the rules were that in my time sheet, I had to list time against each one, and both had to be charged for.
             
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • Informative Informative x 1
            • clanless

              clanless Total Gardener

              Joined:
              Jan 20, 2013
              Messages:
              3,201
              Gender:
              Male
              Occupation:
              Gentleman of leisure.
              Location:
              North Wales
              Ratings:
              +7,630
              The Chief Executive of my Council receives a salary of £130k ish - I think that's entirely reasonable for someone in charge of and legally responsible for an organisation with a revenue budget of £160 million and a capital budget in the 10's of millions. We're talking statutory services which impact upon people's lives.

              I suspect that you may have been working for central government? i work in local government procurement (have done for the last 30 years) - the rules have changed to accomodate more interest from SME's. Can't comment on the specific instances you have given - but we're not stupid enough to buy PC's at 10 times their retail price - we know how much we can buy a pc for from pc world and expect the tendered prices to be lower. If they're not we'll abandon the procurement (which the rules allow us to do as these would be 'irregular' tenders) and purchase directly from a retailer (after negotiating a discount).

              Since before 2006, the EU have been telling us how we should procure - in fact my whole career has been based upon making sure that we follow these rules - and don't end up in court for non compliance.

              Central Government are just as bad - telling us how we should procure services - in many cases their directives just don't make sense in the 'real' world.

              There isn't enough money in local government - I've seen the budgets reduce significantly over the years and I've seen services reduce and whole services withdrawn - services which meet a need but which we now can't afford and in any case don't have a duty to provide.
               
            • clueless1

              clueless1 member... yep, that's what I am:)

              Joined:
              Jan 8, 2008
              Messages:
              17,778
              Gender:
              Male
              Location:
              Here
              Ratings:
              +19,598
              Local, central, all part of the problem.

              I remember a few years ago when I worked in County Durham, there is a road that I and many colleagues had to use to get to and from work. One harsh winter, that road snowed up repeatedly. Half of the road is under Durham council, the other half belongs to Sunderland. Both councils paid separately for snow ploughs to clear the road. Except they didn't coordinate because different snow ploughs did different stretches of the road on different days. It quite literally was a huge waste of money because some days you'd get half way along, then in the middle of nowhere, suddenly it becomes unpassable so you'd have to do a turn in the road and find a different route. Sometimes the Sunderland half was clear, sometimes the Durham half. Now if only the rules had allowed them to get their heads together and pool their resources, the whole road could be open at less than the cost of independently doing two halves with seperate billing.
               
            • Baymule

              Baymule Gardener

              Joined:
              Nov 6, 2016
              Messages:
              111
              Occupation:
              Retired
              Location:
              East Texas
              Ratings:
              +373

              Your NHS sounds like our Veterans Administration. Free Medical care for our veteran service members. But it is a quagmire of rules and regulations, poorly run, and our veterans are treated worse than welfare recipients. Sometimes veterans die while waiting on medical care. it is a disgrace. Our new President promises to fix a very broken system and I hope he can. My own brother went to the VA hospital in Houston, Texas for SIX YEARS, sick and getting sicker and NO diagnosis. He fell out in the floor one night and his wife called an ambulance. A private hospital came up with a diagnosis in a few days, too little-too late, and he died a awful death a few months later. And that is just one of many horror stories out there about our miserable treatment of our veterans. Why my brother didn't go to a real hospital to start with, I don't know, other than he probably couldn't afford it. Shame on our Senate and shame on our Congress. I wish they got their health care at the worst VA hospital in the country.

              Before the Liar-In-Chief took over our health care, I could get a very good health policy for less than $300 a month, less if working for an employer who provided insurance. We were sold a pig in a poke, an UN-Affordable Health Care Act that we were promised would cost about $200 a month, no matter what health problems anybody had and I quote "If you like your Doctor, you can keep your Doctor." All lies. Insurance companies have dropped off and won't offer coverage any more. What a mess. Where it goes from here, I don't know. The payments are skyrocketing, the deductibles are in the tens of thousands-who can afford that? A lot of the people on the AHCA are subsidized by the government which means that people with a job are paying for their own health insurance, plus half of somebody else's to boot. But on a bright note, my son is covered if he gets pregnant!

              On garbage collection, mostly private companies, some are nation wide. They offer good service for a fair price, because there is competition! Yes! If Company A has lousy service and charges too much, you can choose Company B or C. Capitalism sifts out the under performers and too expensive.
               
              • Friendly Friendly x 1
              • shiney

                shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

                Joined:
                Jul 3, 2006
                Messages:
                64,835
                Gender:
                Male
                Occupation:
                Retired - Last Century!!!
                Location:
                Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
                Ratings:
                +126,948
                I agree with @clanless to a great extent and definitely have never worked for local government. In fact, a lot of what I used to do was to be a pain in the @rse (I'm good at that :snork:) of local government to make sure that they did monitor their efficiency and give work to local SME's (small and medium sized businesses - officially designated as less than 250 employees but I got the local authority to aim it more at the less than 50 employees sector). This sector is able to provide good service within a simple budget.

                Big jobs have to go to large companies but they are being scrutinised much closer and what appeared to be a brilliant contract to hand over all housing, cleaning and grounds maintenance to one company worked well for a few years, with improved services and lower costs (the council got a percentage of the companies profit). Unfortunately, as with all these big 'good' ideas, the thing got out of hand (greed and inefficiency rolling in) and the big company has now lost the contract and the council is bringing it back in house but with lots of info on how to avoid inefficiencies. I'm not around to make sure that it happens but I still have an eye on things in the background.

                The local tip, in the town, is run by the county council but even that now runs efficiently and there is no charge for anything. There are restrictions on commercial waste and on how many bags of building material an individual can dump.


                This is happening across the country. Local councils are being squeezed so hard by budgets being reduced so much that they just can't provide the services that people expect. Trying to work out priorities is an impossibility and it's coming down to 'what don't we have to provide? Where can we cut it with least detriment?'. That's where some councils are looking at the cheaper option of trying to support local charities that work in specific areas and who can get volunteers to do most of the work. This, of course, can create tension with unions but it's usually on a small enough scale for them not to interfere.
                 
              • shiney

                shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

                Joined:
                Jul 3, 2006
                Messages:
                64,835
                Gender:
                Male
                Occupation:
                Retired - Last Century!!!
                Location:
                Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
                Ratings:
                +126,948
                There's nothing in the rules to stop them getting together except pig-headedness, lack of foresight and inefficiency :wallbanging:

                You need a 'pain in the @rse' expert to challenge them. :old: Unfortunately it takes years to get that proficient. :snorky:
                 
              • Kandy

                Kandy Will be glad to see the sun again soon.....

                Joined:
                Apr 23, 2006
                Messages:
                11,465
                Occupation:
                Head gardener
                Location:
                In the Middle Of Blighty
                Ratings:
                +6,543
                Went down to see the nurse practitioner for a Hypertension review this morning as I have had to go on to tablets for the time being due to having borderline high BP.

                Anyway,got there at 8.35am which would give me five minutes before I got in to see her.When I told the receptionist my name and who I there to see and what time my appointment was for the lady looked at the computer screen and said I was due to see the nurse at 8.50am.:frown: I explained that the receptionist before Xmas had written the time down for me as by the time I got home I would have forgotten what she said if I just had to remember it.So I ended up spending twenty five minutes (she was over running by five minutes and I was her first patient) before I got in to see her,so had to sit and listen to a loud radio with stupid adverts blaring out of it:mad:

                I had to explain to her what I was there for so she proceeded to take my BP.I was then told my BP was high and had I been waiting long,so I explained what had happened,so the nurse reckons I have the white coat syndrome again.I asked her what the reading was and she wouldn't tell me,she just said it was high:sad:

                So I now have to do my own readings twice a day for a week and then hand them in so that she can average them out and will then let me know hopefully whether I need to stay on the tablets which she has re subscribed,but I reckon that now I am on them it will be for life.

                I expect being with Mr Kandy 24/7 isn't helping my BP plus at the back of my mind I am getting a bit worked up about the foot operation that I am going to be having sometime in the next few months:sad:
                 
                • Friendly Friendly x 2
                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

                  Joined:
                  May 5, 2012
                  Messages:
                  28,543
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Occupation:
                  Public Transport
                  Location:
                  At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
                  Ratings:
                  +53,666
                  @Kandy :grphg:

                  It's not easy, but try and relax a wee bit if you can. BP seems to be a really funny thing, and viewed differently by almost every individual healthcare professional.

                  I have had doctors almost lecturing me about my BP being too high, and foretelling of all nasties that will befall me if it isn't kept in check - yet, my current surgery are aware that (due to their balls up) I am currently only taking two thirds of the dose of BP tablet that was prescribed, and nobody seems bothered.

                  If it helps, I made a spreadsheet that I used to track BP & pulse which took three readings per day, shows a true average of those, with a further weekly average and monthly average. I am happy to email you a copy if you want?

                  As for your foot operation, maybe the best way to think of it is that you are going to be having a problem sorted and if anything it is going to mean less trouble for you?
                   
                  • Friendly Friendly x 1
                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

                    Joined:
                    Jan 9, 2005
                    Messages:
                    52,580
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    Occupation:
                    Retired
                    Location:
                    Mid Kent
                    Ratings:
                    +98,689
                    I've been on BP tablets for more than15yrs.
                    Originally I was told if I stopped smoking I wouldn't need tablets, I did stop, not for that reason more it was about money.
                    Anyway within a few months my GP put me on BP tablets, been on them ever since.

                    I've heard that BP tablets are a bit of a racket that the GPs are involved in, they get more money from the NHS if they can get everyone on tablets, either that or its a drug company thing.
                    Anyway that is just what is going around on the street, possibly just a myth.

                    Its true they are very cagy about telling you what your BP should be, I ask, What it should be and my GP usually says weeeelllll, its a bit higher than I'd like to see it.

                    He told me to double up on the tablets about 6 months ago, but I'm not doing that, I've stayed on the same dose, went to see the nurse a few days ago and she took my BP and said absolutely nothing.

                    So there is something going on regarding BP, not sure what.

                    It's a bit like back in the 70s and 80s when the dentist drilled the life out of your teeth mostly for no reason other than profit, I'm still living with the backlash from those days.
                    I just wonder how long it will be before the BP racket is exposed.
                     
                    • Like Like x 2
                    • "M"

                      "M" Total Gardener

                      Joined:
                      Aug 11, 2012
                      Messages:
                      18,607
                      Location:
                      The Garden of England
                      Ratings:
                      +31,887
                      This link may be of use to you @pete and @Kandy

                      My current (and previous) GP surgery had a blood pressure machine in the reception area. You sit on a seat, put your arm in, few seconds later, it gives a print out of your reading. No need to see the GP and *ask* what the reading is.
                      I had a text from the surgery, just before Christmas, stating I need a BP check:
                      "Please use the self-check BP machine in the reception. Thank you." :scratch: :dunno: Ok!
                      So, following their instructions: I popped in; used the self-check BP machine; got my print out; read it and ... left. :dunno:

                      I don't understand why they don't just tell you anyway? Seems self defeating because knowing what it is and what the ideal should be can only heighten awareness and for those who take it seriously then they can take steps to do something about it.
                       
                      • Agree Agree x 1
                      • Fat Controller

                        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

                        Joined:
                        May 5, 2012
                        Messages:
                        28,543
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Occupation:
                        Public Transport
                        Location:
                        At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
                        Ratings:
                        +53,666
                        I bought one exactly the same as the doctor has - twenty odd quid, and I can keep tabs myself. I must admit, I haven't checked it for a while, however something tells me that this might not be the right week for me to re-start :snork:
                         
                        • Agree Agree x 1
                        • Funny Funny x 1
                        Loading...

                        Share This Page

                        1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                          By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                          Dismiss Notice