Israel

"Britian *meddles*. We get involved with things that have nothing to do with us, kill a few people, and then leave things in a worse mess than before we got involved. Iraq being a good current example. And Afganhistan. Before the US and UK went into Afganhistan, the taliban only controlled 30-something percent of the country. Now they have 75% of the country."

I cant Disagree with this, To my mind some of the things done in the Iraq war by American and some British troops were tantamount to war crimes.

The bit you fail to mention is not only does the meddling cost lives, it also drains the economy and prevents investment in the armed forces.

If find it disgraceful that the troops serving in Iraq and Afghanistan have to buy large amounts of kit out their comparatively low wages as the supplied equipment is so poor.

 

I totally agree Steve Britain does "meddle".

But can you confidently state that the world would be a safer place if we didn't, or had not, "meddled" in the past.

Britain of old was looking after No 1, something we seem to have forgotten how to do.

At least in history Britain "meddled", for the good of Britain, or as they saw it at that time.

Why we "meddle" these days is a mystery, but then maybe we should completely stop all foreign aid as well, as that is no more than a form of "meddling" in countries that rarely appreciate it, and usually stab us in the back.

If another country or the EU steps in to broker a ceasefire in Israel, would that not also be "meddling", as one side or the other, or both are likely to see it that way.

 

As usually happens with me, I take a stand and then from nowhere something ese occurs to me. You`d think I`d learn, but I don`t.

I`m thinking about what Israel has said, that it has to take steps to protect it`s citizens-rule no 1, so why is that responsibility not also on the shoulders of Hamas protecting it`s citizens. All they have to do is accept the State of Israel-it`s there as a fact, why do they have such a problem with accepting the idea? Their first responsibilty is to protect it`s citizens, logically they need to accept The State of Israel and stop sending over missiles. Why so hard? Israel won`t accept Hamas, so in order to protect their citizens logically they have no choice but to do so.

So, now just when I thought I was getting somewhere I find I am worse than I was when I started-completely clueless.

 

Ah, but the state of Israel is slowly starving them, has hemmed them in with a wall and has progressively taken more and more land.

Accept the rule of Israel and they probably fear they may be crushed altogether.

Hamas atleast gives Palestinians a sense of identity and a stronger feeling of legitimacy to a people who are watching themselves be weakened by attrition.

 

Fair comment. It's why the Russians aren't woried about us anymore. They just turn off the gas tap. So what is the argument about surrendering our independence via the Euro etc. (Where are you P.G.?) We haven't got it anymore?

As regards the Palesiniain question. This country doesn't have a say in what happens in this area. When its all finished, the best we can do is to send help to whoever needs it.

 

How true Caj, and if anything this is what makes me the most distressed.

 

Fancy, the Israelis bombed 3 SCHOOLS in Gaza today.

 

Wasn`t one a UN building-a UN school? I watched Al Jazeera yesterday and it showed refugees in a UN school using it as a shelter, and today on CNN it mentioned a UN school being blown up.

 

Yep, Claire, it was.

 

Hmm! Well this is now a war zone. Anything goes. Guerillas hide in schools etc. The army will hit at infrastructure. This was all done in many urban conflicts. None of the contaginists care about people, they are fighting for their political ambitions. Don't we all love politicians whether they've got guns in their hands or not.

Walnut, the reason why this one excites the emotions of people is because there is a racist element. The right wing have never liked the Semites (I don't know why!). For thee and me they're just people getting killed for no reason. I don't think we can see why this war is particulaly important to them or anyone else. Just children getting killed so that politicians can prove something to each other. Sickening, isn't it?

 

To an Extent your right Caj, However what gets me is that Israel is being suported and bank rolled by the US whilst it comits dissproportionate actions akin to war crimes.

 

So what is the argument about surrendering our independence via the Euro etc. (Where are you P.G.?) We haven't got it anymore?

If we don't leave Europe soon then this will be the case. Eu red tape is destroying us and brining us closer and closer to total European control. Leave soon and this situation can be halted.

 

I must disagree with any attempt to defend Hamas Paul. Identity is innate and not given to one person by another. I do understand that they are firing upon Israelis from places where refugees are currently hiding-I do understand that there aren`t all that many places left to fire from. But this is where having the courage of their convictions plays a part. They are hiding amongst the populace, they are endangering their people, thay have failed in their role as leader and protector. I saw children on the streets, I saw women in tears because their children were suffering in front of their eyes. All emotional sights. But I also saw a Hamas member speaking from a bunker, his face covered so as to obscure his identity, spewing threats to a people he is so brave as to stand up against, that he hides his body, he hides his features. None of the womens faces were covered, nor the childrens, nor the fathers who were carrying the dead bodies of their children into and out of cars and hospitals-just this "soldiers" face.

It isn`t bravery to throw your life away when you take other innocent people down with you.

 

I was disgusted to hear that some militant muslims in this country have apparently got prominent Jewish targets here in their sights, as retaliation for the bombing of Gaza!

 

I heard that too Aaron-also that they claim there is always the possibilty that Israeli/Jewish persons are a "legitimate" target.


It will result in a severe problem for us if we continue to pretend that this problem isn`t also our problem. We are not too far away to remain unnaffected. We are only as far away from it as we are from our TV screens.