New Aquarium

Discussion in 'Members Hobbies' started by Fat Controller, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. ricky101

    ricky101 Total Gardener

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,273
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +4,184
    Hi FC,

    Sounds like you have had a busy day and taken in a lot of info etc.

    Perhaps I could offer a couple of pointers, the main one being the tap water, which you say is very hard.
    Now thats at the opposite end of the ph and hardness scales that many trops come from, like the Amazon etc, so I would have expected your tank friend, neighbour and shop keeper to have mentioned something about treating your tap water to reduce the hardness etc ?
    Often folk buy de-ionisers or use ro water to give the softness such fish prefer.
    Worth asking them what they did and what fish they stocked if the water they used was hard.

    I know some fish do adapt ok to harder water but as you can see from this link even the plants prefer a softer water with low or neutral ph.
    https://www.liveaquaria.com/article/102/?aid=102

    Take your time setting up the tank before adding any plants; making sure all the filter sections , heaters and pumps work ok and that you are happy with the basic rock work.
    Think you will find bogwood adds a much more natural look , but you can add that as your tank develops.

    It will all be cloudy for the first day after you add the rock and gravel but run the filter with just some filter Floss and it will be clear next day.

    Clown Loaches are beautiful creatures, like little dogs nosing around , but they really need a fine sandy substrate to be happy, though you could create a sand box area for them, however they do grow in time to up to 30cm so even your 4ft tank will be too small.
    Not a fish I would add to a new tank.
    Some good info here -
    Clown loach: care, size, lifespan, tankmates, breeding
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

      Joined:
      May 5, 2012
      Messages:
      26,198
      Gender:
      Male
      Occupation:
      Public Transport
      Location:
      At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
      Ratings:
      +48,814
      Hi Ricky:)

      I am glad you posted that info! The woman in the shop actually suggested that we should put three clown loaches into our tank, as they were good for dealing with any snails if we happened to get any (among plants etc); digging out the books that we have, they seem to suggest that they generally grow to 6-inches (up to 12 if they are really happy) and state that a 39" tank would be needed, so I can see how people could end up with fish that are too big for their tank!

      Is there any other fish that would be a good natural protection against any potential snails?

      Regarding the water quality, the inference there was that the water conditioner would deal with that, at least to a sufficient level for fish that we would get from them or most aquarium shops around our area, unless we were going for some of the more sensitive fish - is that advice wrong? If so, how on earth do we soften the water?

      Whilst we have no fish, I do have all the plants due to arrive on Friday or Saturday, so I will need to be getting them into the tank before they expire. Oh, and I did pick up one bit of dogwood - only £4 and it looked nice........ I was going to soak it before putting it into the tank, but am now reading that it might help with the water hardness problem, even if only a wee bit?

      Blimey, this fish keeping is a right lark, and I haven't even got a fish yet!
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Freddy

        Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

        Joined:
        Jul 15, 2007
        Messages:
        9,461
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        Retired - yay!
        Location:
        Bristol
        Ratings:
        +12,508
        • Like Like x 1
        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

          Joined:
          May 5, 2012
          Messages:
          26,198
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Public Transport
          Location:
          At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
          Ratings:
          +48,814
          Not yet, but I have test strips that will help me determine that. Mrs C has had a chat with her dad - he lives in Cornwall now, but used to live very close to where we are (streets away), and he had tropical fish when he lived here. He simply treated the water with Tap Safe which is the stuff we have, and says he never had any problems.

          From what I am reading online, there is a 'pillow' that will fit into the filter that softens the water, but not knowing what filter we have yet makes that a bit of a challenge - - and I am not sure how effective it will be in such a big tank?

          Starting to get the feeling that I have opened a can of worms here........
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • Freddy

            Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

            Joined:
            Jul 15, 2007
            Messages:
            9,461
            Gender:
            Male
            Occupation:
            Retired - yay!
            Location:
            Bristol
            Ratings:
            +12,508
            AFAIK, the PH is related to hardness, so a PH test would be my first port of call. I used to keep Koi, and had a PH of around 8.0, not great, but the fish did ok. Yes, I realise Koi and trops might have different requirements, just saying. Tapsafe is a De-chlorinater, essential to keep the filter habitated with (good) bacteria, chlorine kills bacteria.
            I would imagine if trops have been kept successfully locally, then you should be good to go, but it’s worth noting, ponds, tanks, whatever, can be time-bombs waiting to go off (just saying).
            Not heard of “pillows”, but I do believe that in the Koi world, there is something that can be used to lower PH, but I can’t remember what it is now.
            As mentioned earlier, there is RO (reverse osmosis), something I don’t know much about, but it sounds a bit of a faff to me, and can in itself be problematic.
            If it were me, I’d do the PH test to determine it was in a ‘sensible’ range and proceed from there.
             
            • Like Like x 2
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • Fat Controller

              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

              Joined:
              May 5, 2012
              Messages:
              26,198
              Gender:
              Male
              Occupation:
              Public Transport
              Location:
              At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
              Ratings:
              +48,814
              Thanks @Freddy - they have definitely been kept locally, both by father in law and my neighbour across the road, and given the amount of houses around here I would bet that there are quite a few others. I looked at a reverse osmosis kit to see if I could work out how it did its thing, but apart from seeing that it connects to the mains water and puts out a certain rate of water as well as 'waste' water, I cannot for the life of me see how it is supposed to be used properly. I certainly don't have space for holding big tanks of water either - nor do I have the thick end of £50 to spend on one. I equally don't believe that everyone around here with fish tanks are spending loads of money on softened water?
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • Freddy

                Freddy Miserable git, well known for it

                Joined:
                Jul 15, 2007
                Messages:
                9,461
                Gender:
                Male
                Occupation:
                Retired - yay!
                Location:
                Bristol
                Ratings:
                +12,508
                Some folks do spend money on RO water. Your local dealer may even be able to supply you with some, priced per gallon. It just depends how far you want to go with it. There’s a saying, something like “you aren’t keeping fish, you’re keeping water”. A good mantra, but it can become obsessive and get out of hand, and burn large holes in your wallet.
                Ricky probably knows more than me, just my take on it :thumbsup:
                 
                • Like Like x 2
                • ricky101

                  ricky101 Total Gardener

                  Joined:
                  Jun 15, 2016
                  Messages:
                  3,273
                  Gender:
                  Male
                  Location:
                  Sheffield
                  Ratings:
                  +4,184
                  Hi,

                  Never found snails to be a problem in a planted tank, perhaps these days they are more prevalent ?

                  Controlling snails


                  I would suggest you get a large bucket, fill with water at 22deg C, approx, treat with your TapSafe and place the plants in there and put the bucket in a warm room in good light and give the water an occasion gentle stir to keep it fresh.

                  Not taking you time in setting up the aquarium properly for the sake of £10 of plants will cost you a lot more time and money in the long run.

                  As said, do ask what fish others have kept ok in your hard water area and use that as a starting point , though it is better to have softer water, if you intend to get fully into planted tanks long term.

                  Water softening can seem a complex problem with many 'pillows' etc but to be honest they will not be practical for a tank your size, plus its always better to solve the problem at source.

                  You can filter your water though de-ionisation resin but on its own they work out very costly for very hard water.
                  A R.0. system , Reverse Osmosis, is the real answer, but they cost about £100.
                  They used be be quiet complex as @Freddy mentions but today they are quiet simple and reliable, used them many years.

                  However most aquarium shops sell RO water and you can use it 100% + a re-mineralisation additive, or as some do, mix it 50 /50 with your hard tap water.


                  Edit, just seen your last post since I started typing the above, so it seems like you can get away with your hard water, Tapsafe and a starter solution.

                  I would just check with your fish shop that the fish you buy are ok in your hard water, some will be more suitable than others.
                   
                  • Like Like x 2
                    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
                  • ricky101

                    ricky101 Total Gardener

                    Joined:
                    Jun 15, 2016
                    Messages:
                    3,273
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    Location:
                    Sheffield
                    Ratings:
                    +4,184
                    Hi FC,

                    Think you are getting me in the mood for resurrecting my old tank .. ??!!

                    Wondered who you ordered your plant pack off ?
                     
                    • Like Like x 1
                    • Fat Controller

                      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

                      Joined:
                      May 5, 2012
                      Messages:
                      26,198
                      Gender:
                      Male
                      Occupation:
                      Public Transport
                      Location:
                      At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
                      Ratings:
                      +48,814
                      Evening all :)

                      Well, the tank is here and thanks to my neighbours across the road is now happily placed immediately to my right, so I will be able to turn my head and see it. My neighbour is now jealous - turns out that he had two tanks, and the rocks came from one that he got rid of, but he still has a tropical tank; his daughter is a vet at a local surgery, and she popped over with him and gave me lots of advice, and confirmed that our water should be fine as long as I treated it with Tap Safe.

                      The tank itself is an absolute stunner - it is not bow fronted, but the front corners are curved, so the front and sides are all one piece of glass. The filter is in the hood, and it looks to me as though they have already replaced the filter itself as it is as clean as a whistle - and I mean really clean, and even smells new. I do have a bit of a worry though - the filter media itself is a rectangular strip of that course stuff, a bit like Scotchbrite; now, from what I have read just about everywhere, when replacing the filter media it should be replaced half at a time to retain the good bacteria, so would I just cut it in half?

                      Also will I have to replace it with the same type of media, or would I better to change it to something else (wool?) come filter change time? Or, should I change it before I even start (assuming it is not expensive)?

                      The filter pump sucks the water up from the bottom of the tank, and then pushes it through a pipe which has a load of holes in it - the water falls out of these holes into the filter 'sponge', then into the plastic tray below it where it runs through a wee channel on the left side, builds up in a wee chamber until it overflows into a wee pipe thing and then drops back into the tank.

                      Now, that brings me to my next question. I have filled the tank to leak test it, and currently the water level is about an inch under the top rim which holds the lid - at that level, the water coming out of the filter will be dropping down by about an inch which I suspect will be quite noisy - should I have the water level higher?

                      We will be draining the tank tomorrow (that will be fun!) and then it wants cleaning - no sign of any algae or anything, in fact it is generally quite clean - just a wee bit grubby here and there, but nothing that good wipe with a J-cloth won't sort out. There are a couple of wee dinks here and there, as you would expect for something that isn't new - oh, and there is one screw missing from one of the cupboard door handles, but I reckon I have one in my tool box (so that is a mission for Mrs C to dig that out!) - other than that, it looks as though it has never been used!

                      @ricky101 - I bought them on ebay from a seller called plymstarr - he is quite clear that the plants are rinsed etc, so should be free of snails but he doesn't give a 100% guarantee which is fair enough really.

                      My neighbour is also donating a big bag of something he called Caribian something or other - - apparently it is what I need to put under the gravel for the plants to root into, and he reckons he has plenty in his garage to get me started. :yes:
                       
                      • Like Like x 2
                      • Fat Controller

                        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

                        Joined:
                        May 5, 2012
                        Messages:
                        26,198
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Occupation:
                        Public Transport
                        Location:
                        At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
                        Ratings:
                        +48,814
                        Should there be some of these fellows under the sponge for the good bacteria to colonise? Shame I didn't think of this when I had a vet in the house!
                         
                        • Like Like x 1
                        • Fat Controller

                          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

                          Joined:
                          May 5, 2012
                          Messages:
                          26,198
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          Occupation:
                          Public Transport
                          Location:
                          At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
                          Ratings:
                          +48,814
                        • ricky101

                          ricky101 Total Gardener

                          Joined:
                          Jun 15, 2016
                          Messages:
                          3,273
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          Location:
                          Sheffield
                          Ratings:
                          +4,184
                          Hi,

                          Thanks for that plant link, looks a good selection.

                          I have a small tank left, but have been looking a a slightly larger one for sale locally, still not sure if I should take the plunge again :dunno: ... can always blame you ... :biggrin:

                          Would love to see some pics of the tank and partic the hood / filter, I was expecting it to be built into the rear of the tank, have seen hood filters on very small aquariums but not on a big 4ft one.

                          Your filter medium should be three basic parts.
                          A course foam to catch the large particles, then some filter floss to catch the very fine particles.

                          Your ceramic rings need protecting so need to come after the floss or have their own covering.
                          The rings help reduce Nitirate etc( don't worry about that for now )

                          And yes, do try and have two of the foam and ceramic rings so you can clean just half at a time.
                          Your floss is throw away, you if you have the space again good to use two lots.

                          In a full tank you are only talking about filter cleaning every couple of weeks (debatable point) and the floss, depending on how its set up, could be every day or just once a week.

                          Biggest fishkeeping problems, impatience and overfeeding ! a little and often , as in nature, generally.
                           
                          • Funny Funny x 1
                          • Fat Controller

                            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

                            Joined:
                            May 5, 2012
                            Messages:
                            26,198
                            Gender:
                            Male
                            Occupation:
                            Public Transport
                            Location:
                            At me 'puter, GCHQ Ashford Office, Middlesex
                            Ratings:
                            +48,814
                            Thanks @ricky101, although I am not sure if I am ready to take the blame for another tank. I have done a bit more research (YouTube is a goldmine, and makes things really easy to understand, even for an eejit like me :snorky: - - it appears that he polyfilter is a replacement for coarse and fine filter media, but it also seems that it is not without its problems - the ceramic rings appear to be better for encouraging good bacteria to grow for a start, so I think I am into getting some of those (probably be the last tenner available on my credit card!) and putting them under the polyfilter.

                            The other problem with the polyfilter seems to be if they clog up with dirt at the 'output' end, especially if the material butts right up to the end of the channel - which it does on my tank (see, only a few hours and it is my tank.. :biggrin:) - this causes a backflow into the filter which then overflows right down the back of your tank. So, that coupled with the fact that the polyfilter on this one is one whole piece has led me to decide that I am going to cut a few inches off the output end of the polyfilter to prevent the blockage problem (this seems to be the recognised cure), then I am going to cut the remaining filter into three equal parts, put some of the noodles into the tray and then put the polyfilter on top.

                            I will get some photos, but I am wanting to be a bit houseproud and get it cleaned and set up before I do - forgive me :redface:

                            There is a bit of me feels really bad that we are really benefiting from someone else's misfortune, not least as this tank is almost new (I don't have a date, but it really can't be that old as it looks pretty close to new, and the cupboard in the stand still has a whiff of that new smell) - BUT, I then look at it sitting in pride of place in our living room and I am chuffed to bits with it! Does that make me a bad person? :redface:

                            On the upside, apparently the donor said when it was collected today that they had sort of hoped that we would be the ones in the family to say that we would take it, as it would be something nice to make up for the rotten start to the year - a really nice thing to say, given that they are now the ones having a tough time one way or another.
                             
                            • Like Like x 2
                            • ricky101

                              ricky101 Total Gardener

                              Joined:
                              Jun 15, 2016
                              Messages:
                              3,273
                              Gender:
                              Male
                              Location:
                              Sheffield
                              Ratings:
                              +4,184
                              Hi,

                              Well seems like they have changed polyfilter a bit since I last used it.

                              Today they say its can be used as a particle filter but we never did that ,quiet the reverse, it was always the last in the filter chain to ensure it stayed as clean as possible so its key function to Absorb the unwanted elements was unimpeded.

                              Wonder if they are now saying use it that way to increase its sales because it gets physically dirty quicker that way.
                              Again we only used a small cut piece with it being much more expensive then.

                              In all the time I used it in my tanks it never changed colour to reveal any harmful substances.

                              Afraid I have missed one other important product that I always used in trops and marines and thats Carbon, similar-ish in function to a polyfilter.
                              You can use both or either but Carbon would always be my first choice, but as you can see there are dozens of similar products and thousands of ytubes saying whats best.

                              Suggest for now you just go with the time proven basics and don't overload on all the possible products.

                              As you mentioned about the filter blocking and backing up, in normal use your filters can reduce the flow by up to 50% after a week or two, so you need to be sure your filter media loading / pump flow can cope without the overflowing you mentioned.
                              Without seeing it , sounds like your pump flow needs regulating, is there a tap in the pipework ?
                              Any instructions with the filter on how best to set it up ?
                               
                              • Like Like x 1
                              Loading...

                              Share This Page

                              1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                                Dismiss Notice