New Aquarium

Discussion in 'Members Hobbies' started by Fat Controller, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. ricky101

    ricky101 Total Gardener

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    Hi @BigC,

    Thanks for that, am likewise old school and one of the things thats so very different from when I ran a Dennerle pressurized C02 is that they* say use x10 + circulation, spray bar and even an air pump, yet we were told to use a slow steady circulation with minimal surface agitation...?

    Assume you do use C02 ?

    * some planted tank web sites
     
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    • BigC

      BigC Super Gardener

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      Its all come a long way since the early days of DUPLA and Dennerle. I was an exponent of the latter (Dupla)
      You can get a nice full blown CO2 system now from JBL for a decent price (JBL ProFlora u501 - Plant Co2 System Complete Kit)
      but the same addage remains acquiring refils...also the administration of the CO2 via the diffussers has changed dramatically (more efficient and unobtrusive)..no surface agitation is required and is shunned...their are cheaper smaller versions and chemical reaction models but I find these a false economy.
      For websites UKAPS, Tropica, The Green Machine, Oliver Knott to name but a few
      Prepare to be sucked in deep...I can also advise you about Wallet Pumps...if you need yours re-inflated after this venture...:lunapic 130165696578242 5:
      Just wait to you see todays lighting options

      Otto.jpg
       
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        Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
      • BigC

        BigC Super Gardener

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        Some of my old work
         
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        • BigC

          BigC Super Gardener

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          FYI
          I have been known to set up micro tanks using Fluval's soda stream type gas bottles as below
          Alder Cones can also be used for dropping pH and water conditioning

          Edge2.png

          51d2G3tteLL._SY300_.jpg

          Edge3.png

          edge1.png
           
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            Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
          • BigC

            BigC Super Gardener

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            Small basic Fluval CO2 setup with various additional cheap components for micro aquariums for folks on a budget (no good for large aquariums) Getting good control can be a little problematic but when set it runs pretty good

            I would use this on temp setups,
            i.e. Spawning Diapteron georgiae (final pic)

            IMG_1804.jpg

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            IMG_1828.jpg

            4MAR2015.jpg

            IMG_1984.jpg
             
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              Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
            • ricky101

              ricky101 Total Gardener

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              Hi @BigC

              Thanks for the info and very interesting clip/pics, always good to see how other succeed :smile:

              Know what you mean about 'the forums' , some suggesting the best substrate which I looked up and found it cost £99 a small bag ! and I thought marines were expensive !

              Seems like a wide choice of pressurised c02 these days, going to take some thought there :scratch::)

              Like you I used to use the little Ottos but only had two or three in a 120ltr tank, seems they prefer to be in larger groups, think my little 55ltr tank will handle 4 or 5 when it has really matured and the plants growing well.
               
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              • BigC

                BigC Super Gardener

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                my substrates have always been 1/3 ordinary unwashed fine gravel mixed with a natural compost no additives and a 2/3 topping off layer be that Sand/Cat Litter or Fine Gravel....the choice of natural looking toppers today is endless but sometimes they command extortionate price tags especially if its a large tank...keep it simple I say...I'd much prefer to put my money into lighting than waste on designer substrata.
                 
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                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  OK, spoke to the local aquarium shop and took a sample of water in with us - they essentially agreed with the test strips, in as much as they showed nitrites and nitrates, and no ammonia and that led them to the conclusion that our tank was in a cycle, but hadn't completed a cycle. I am a tad concerned, as I did not see any ammonia spike (although admittedly, the water was in there a few days before I started testing.

                  Regarding the hardness, we were told not to worry about that as it wouldn't bother the fish - presumably they are referring to the fish that they supply, which may well have been bred in hard water?

                  We did come home with a few plants to replace those that had unrooted themselves numerous times, and were starting to rot at the bottom; not quite sure where Mrs C has put the labels at the moment, but I will post the names of them when I find them. I also had no choice but to get a new heater (pee'd me off a bit to be honest) - over the past few days, whenever I have touched the water, it has seemed quite warm and subsequent checking with a thermometer showed temperatures of 30-31ºC, and that did not subside despite turning the control on the back of the heater, so I think it might be cream-crackered. I haven't lobbed it, as it would do as a stand in for a day or two if the new one ever decides to fail (as they do, usually on Christmas Day!)

                  So, it was lid off again to plant plants, and clear out dead leaves that were floating from the plants that were presumably refusing to take root. While we had the lid off, I measured the pipework for the external filter with a view to looking out for some sort of hose/flexible tubing to make it easier to remove the hood when we need to, and if possible to have the spray bar for the external filter over on the left where the water comes in from the internal filter. Mrs C came up with a brilliant idea that we should perhaps look at some of the tubing on the various syphons we have for wine making, some of which are hugely long, others are on broken syphons that we have kept to cannibalise..... and lo-and-behold, one of the PVC hoses fitted between the input pipe and the spray bar beautfully!! So, cut to size, cable tie to hold it at the top of the tank, and I now have the spray bar on the left of the tank so now all water leaves on the right to go to both filters and comes back in on the right. I have also been able to submerge (just) the spray bar, so I no longer have the sound of running water in my right ear.
                   
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                  • ricky101

                    ricky101 Total Gardener

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                    Hi @Fat Controller

                    Your Tap Safe etc will probably have caused a brief ammonia spike converting it quickly to Nitrite then Nitrate , the latter will stay in the water until removed or some used by the plants.

                    Have heard about the fish being bred in harder water, probably true of the common easy to breed species.

                    The heaters can vary a deg C between on and off, thats why an electronic temperature controller is often used, partic in marines.
                    Still, for trops you should aim for around 24C which a decent make heater should easily do.

                    At 31c measured, plus possibly higher, then that could contribute to some plants fading away, but also check the circulation, are the plants really being blown around too much ?

                    Afraid I cannot quiet make out the problem with the external filter hoses, usually its just a case of hanging them over the edge of the tank, even hoods usually provide some point for access like in this photo.

                    As for securing the pipes where the suckers are not too good, I use the self adhesive pads and cable ties on the outside of the tank.

                    hth

                    001103.jpg 001105.jpg 001106.jpg
                     
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                    • Fat Controller

                      Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                      @ricky101 - there is no issue with the pipes themselves, it is the design of the tank/hood that is the problem. On the back of the tank, there is two oval holes in the top rim (one on each side of the tank), which is above the glass and the bit that the hood sits into - these holes in themselves are fine for the pipes to pass through, and hang over the side of the tank, but then the lid wouldn't sit down at the back; this in turn pushed the internal filter lid open.

                      The problem was in fact the internal filter, which was blocking/obscuring the bulk of the holes in the tank which meant they were only really suitable to pass in small air pipes and heater power cable etc. To allow the pipes to pass in through the hood, I had do modify one end of the filter tray (removing the areas in hatched red on the image below) so the pipes come into the filter tray and then drop through the hole where the pipe comes up from the powerhead type pump into the internal filter spray bar. Only the right side of the filter tray could be modified in this way as the other side is the output chamber where the water swirls and goes back down into the tank.

                      lidmod.jpg

                      The downside of that was that the height they were passing through meant that the hard pipes were barely poking out of the bottom of the hood, particularly the one for the spray bar coming in from the external filter. The other downside was that both the in and the out pipes for the external filter had to come in/out at the same side of the tank. The pipe going to the spray bar was as tight as a tight man's tight thing, to the point that if we had to lift the hood at all, even just the front, the spray bar pipework would become detached. This also meant that the spray bar was so high up near the hood that the water was dribbling down a fair old distance and it was remarkably noisy (I could hear it from upstairs during the night).

                      Now, we have a piece of hose that attaches to the pipework just under the lid, and has allowed me to move the spray bar over to the left side of the tank - so now all the outgoing water is on the right, and all the incoming is on the left; and it is lower, so is all but submerged, and I now don't have the noise of running water all the time - and it has also stopped a lot of turbulence in the water which I suspect is part of the reason that some of the plants didn't root.

                      As for the heater, it was set initially to 26º and over a few days it was turned down about three times, yet the temperature just kept rising and rising - with the heater set to 24º, we had water at nearly 31º, and that was at the opposite end of the tank to the heater, hence my deduction that it was stuffed.

                      I will keep checking the water over the coming days and see, and I will have to live in hope that the plants will remove the nitrates from the water, as there is actually more nitrates in our tap water than there is in the tank at the moment
                       
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                      • BigC

                        BigC Super Gardener

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                        If your growing plants you dont want a spray bar causing loads of oxygen bubbles in the water column..have it running just across the surface or below. Or is it contained in the filter chamber itself.
                        Also if the plants were Cryptocorne's then they will rot initally and loose leaves, commonly known as Crypto Rot...if left they will generally adapt and come back...Plants too have specific water requirements not just fish
                        Keep the temps down to around 72F this will allow you room to treat disease such as whitespot should the need arise.
                        Surface plants will help also (Salvinia natans) or Frogbit.
                        crypt plantlets.jpg

                        ..atb C
                         
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                          Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
                        • Perki

                          Perki Total Gardener

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                          You might already know FC but unplug the heater and filter/pump when removing water or when the tank not nearly full, you don't want to be forking out for another heater.
                           
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                          • Fat Controller

                            Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                            My dad got a severe electric shock when I was a kid (so thirty-odd years ago now), and it was from the lights in the hood of our tropical tank. He was stood barefoot on a concrete fireplace, and was basically stuck to the lid until my mum came into the room and killed the power; he was really ill for ages after it too. So, any work on the tank - power goes off. If I need to, I have a kettle that I can use to heat water and take the chill off water changes by adding hot water to each bucket - I even have a spare wine thermometer to check the bucket temp before I put the water in :)
                             
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                            • BigC

                              BigC Super Gardener

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                              I always buy Tropica brand plant plugs. I've had some real nightmare mail order fiascoes from other companies .Tropica can be a little more expensive but you can open up the rockwool and subdivide sometimes...so buying ONE plant can amount to a whole lot more, especially with Cryptos and Grasses .....also their webpages provide you with tons of info on specific plant care and Aqua schematic ideas
                              crypts 4.jpg
                              grass2.jpg
                               
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                                Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
                              • Fat Controller

                                Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                                Those look like the ones we bought yesterday @BigC, although we chose not to separate them, despite being tempted to do so - we bought two pots of Echinodorus bleheri, one of Bacopa monnieri, and another couple that I don't have labels for.

                                The ones that are floating up are those that came without roots - essentially cuttings that should have rooted themselves, but I think our ham-fisted attempts to get them in have crushed the stems causing them to start to rot and then not root. Not the sellers fault to be fair - I think they are more aimed at people like yourself who know what they are doing, and have established tanks, rather than muppets like me who are just starting out.
                                 
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