New Bird Of Paradise....

Kristen - many thanks for that link to Trebrown. Its not a site I have been on before, and is most interesting. In fact I spent so long looking at it and reading the articles, and then Googling further, that I didn't have time to say thank you yesterday.

I was reading the article on palm seed germination, and I take your point about the low germination rate. It seems like they haven't heard about Harrington either, as the article says that germination rates of palms can drop if the seed temperature falls below 60F. But, of course, tropical seeds are a totally different matter from our normal garden stuff.

One writer on Dave's Garden stated that they had good germination from all the seeds bought fromTrebrown, except for Ravenala - though some did germinate.

The prices are really cheap, so I will probably get one or two items from there. I will let you know and perhaps we can swap any surplus.

 

Have just ordered some seeds from Trebrown

30 Butia odorata
30 Trachycarpus fortunei
40 Ravenala madagascariensis

so thanks again Kristen for the link

 

I resemble that remark

I had a further two Ravenala germinate yesterday, making a total of 3 so far. No Bananas germinated yet.

They are in zip-lock bags of sphagnum moss (seeds just mixed in, but bags inflated a bit) lying on top of a reptile mat with a thermostat sensor in between them (the bags are arranged like the diagonal butt joint in an oak beam, if you know what I mean, and the sensor in the middle of the diagonal joint to try to get a mid-point temperature). Time clock on the heating mat is 6 hours OFF (room temperature around 19C) / 18 hours ON at 30C (I put a USB Temperature logger in there for a week to check it was maintaining temperature - it kept it to within half a degree. If I ever get OCD I'll let you know !!!). Whole lot covered with an upturned polystyrene fish-packing-box to keep the heat in.

Bit fiddly tipping the moss out once a week to check for germination - worry that I will break a newly emerging shoot, and the sphagnum moss generates some things that look eerily similar to seed's shoots giving me heart failure the first time that I had broken off hundreds of shoot - when I only had a few 10's of seed in there!

Perhaps there is a better way?

 

Thanks Kristen very informative and helpful. Well done on the germination - how long did they take?

Is there any reason to use sphagnum moss. I would be tempted to just put them in a polybag with damp kitchen roll - because its simple - no more sophisticated reason.

And is there a reason for turning the heating off for 6 hours? I do this with my lightbox germinating seeds as it seems more natural, and the heat goes off with the light. But recently I have been incubating some Colocasea and Ensete and just left the heating on all the time - out of laziness.

I was interested in your data logger. I had not heard of them - but just had a look. I like the idea that it is battery operated and hence portable. I like gadgets like that, so might get one. Thanks for the introduction.

 

Sown on 28-Jan. First one was up 7-10 days ago, the next two a couple of days ago.

I read somewhere that it has some anti-fungal properties, and that people use it for that benefit, but also because it retains plenty of air (as well as providing moisture). Might have dreamt it though! so probably best you Google to see what conclusion you draw

Various theories that temperature alternating Day/Night is part of the trigger for germination I've seen plenty of people who say they got decent germination with no alternating temperature, but I've never seen anyone say they got worst germination - so I thought it worth doing just-in-case.

A bit like Sterling Moss saying although he didn't believe in superstition, in his line of work it would be a bit stupid to ignore it - just-in-case!!!

I prefer the real-time ones, but for the [little] money I am prepared to pay their data transmission is hit & miss. I have a supposedly "long distance" one in the greenhouse. It is about 5 Metres over the range of the short-distance one (but has the greenhouse glass, a hedge and one pane of glass in the house - no walls - to go through). It drops out quite a significant proportion of the time (although I can still guestimate the outline of the graph). They are from AREXX. Their base station continues to log data in a power cut / when PC is off, but the instructions say that when a PC boots it may wipe the base stations memory, so advise to unplug base station USB when turning PB on. That's a faff at best, and in the case of an unattended power cut likely to mean data loss :( I have a couple of short-range AREXX ones in the conservatory, which is only a hand full of Metres from my office window / base-station. They drop out a bit too, but not very much, so that works well enough.

The standalone ones you plug in the USB, run the software, set their CONFIG (how long between each temperature value capture etc. etc.) and then you put them in place (and press a button to "start" logging), then retrieve them after a while (stores about a months values I think, I retrieve them weekly), plug in USB, download data, reset the CONFIG again, and put them back in the greenhouse. Whilst you carry them to the house you pollute the last few minutes of logging - longer if you stop for a bit of weeding on the way! - although you can trim that off the data once downloaded its yet more faff ...

So Cheap & Cheerful, and far from perfect. Sort of gets the job done though.

I'll look out where I got them from for you when I have a mo.

 

Kristen - very many thanks for a very informative post.

I only had a quick Google with respect to the temperature loggers. There is obviously more to it - so more Googling is required.

 

Found a bit of a review I did, in case it is any help:
http://gardenerscorner.co.uk/forum/threads/discounted-usb-weather-station.48138/#post-619419

 

Thanks Kristen - I had a good read of that thread - very interesting.

 

Kristen - I saw on another forum that you were trying to grow Ravenala from seed a year ago. How did they do?

 

You probably saw in on this forum - this thread even - your memory is as bad as mine; which is a relief that its not just me
http://gardenerscorner.co.uk/forum/threads/new-bird-of-paradise.50572/page-2#post-661583

3 Ravenala germinated so far. (somewhere around 20 ~ 25 seeds sown)

None of the Musa sikkimensis have germinated yet.

I tipped the seeds out of the zip-lock bag today for an inspection (they are in with some Sphagnum moss on a Reptile heating mat). The Musa seed felt "dry" to me, so I've put it (and the Ravenala) to soak for a few hours. I wonder whether damp paper-towel would fare better.

Mind you, I'll be happy with one decent Ravenala plant, I bought plenty of seed just for insurance, not because I want/need several, so the three I have will be fine - if one of them survives. But same with the Musa, so I do need some of them to germinate ...

Same boat for you probably?

 

Ahhhhhhhhhh ... ignore all that ..... you read about a "Year Ago"

Mea Culpa, and apologies.

I only had 10 seeds then, none of them germinated. I have another packet of 10 seeds from same supplier this year (different supplier to the 20-25 seeds), and none of them have germinated yet this year either, so maybe stale seed both times.

 

I just found your previous seed comment again - Hardy Tropicals 23 Feb 2012

I am sorry to hear about your poor germination. Some sites say that it is easy to germinate - but of course that depends on how fresh the seeds are.

I have just soaked and sowed 40 seeds, which I bought from your link Trebrown Nurseries (thank you). 20 in moss - copying you and 20 in a 50% mix of compost and perlite. Both lots in small sealed food containers, in my eddoe/dasheen box at 25C to 30C. I can't do any more than keep my fingers crossed now.

I am having problems getting my mind round what is a fresh seed. I can understand that small, soft, brown or green seeds need to be fresh. But I have a problem with tough black ones, that are so hard that you have to soak them for several days. I also bought some Butia capitata seed, that need to be fresh, but also are so hard they needs to soak for 14 days.

On a slightly different subject - I suspect that, in general, I am overwatering my seeds which, if they germinate, do so inspite of and not because of my watering. I was Googling Butia capitata, and one site said put two cupfuls of perlite in a sealed container with two tablespoons of water - no more. I haven't sown the Butia yet - but today I sowed some Trachycarpus fortunei. I made up two sealed containers, with about one cupful of 50/50 compost/perlite mix in each. In one I put one tablespoonful of water, and in the other two. In both cases the mix felt comfortably moist - but thats a lot less water than filling a pot with compost, watering it and letting it drain.

 

Indeed! I am imagining that in pure Perlite there will be good capillary action involved, so very little water needed to "coat" the Perlite and thus make the water available to the seeds. My "Stand in a bowel of water for 5 minutes" for seed trays doubles their weight, so quite possibly very little oxygen in the soil ... but the seeds are very near the surface, and that is the bit that is going to dry out first I suppose ...

I think LongK's comment the other day that he almost universally uses damp paper towel as his media says a lot. Much more controllable / repeatable I think

 

A couple of days ago, I bought 3 very small flat "tupperware" type food containers from Morrisons. I used these for my recent seed sowing (+ another I already had). Whilst doing so it struck me that there was very good control of moisture - by measuring out the perlite (plus compost if wanted) and measuring out the water. The lids were tight fitting and wouldn't lose any water. You could put an inch of perlite/compost in them, and this would give you the best combination of pot and baggie methods.

What set me thinking, is that I sowed two small pots of Lobelia tupa seeds. And put them side by side in my heated propagator. One pot is now covered in seedlings and the other has none. This means that my watering is entirely at fault with the failed pot, as I can't blame it on the seed. I wonder how many other failures I have had through moisture levels.

I am tempted to follow this "tupperware" method up more.

 

I'm going to have a look at all the seed trays that have not shown anything yet, and if I have seed left over will try that using Paper Towel method for a comparison.