No Dig or Double Dig

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by GreenFingeredPete, Thursday at 8:56 PM.

  1. Busy-Lizzie

    Busy-Lizzie Total Gardener

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2024
    Messages:
    1,582
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Norfolk and Dordogne, France
    Ratings:
    +5,477
    Good point about not enough compost @NigelJ. I seem to spend a fortune on it.

    When I bought my house in France 4 years ago I found that the soil is clay. I've dug compost into the flower beds I've made and mulched them every year and at last the soil is getting more workable and better drained. Same for the veg garden, though it wasn't as bad as it had already been cultivated by the previous owner.

    After years of digging and adding manure from the local farmer, I made raised beds in my previous vegetable garden in France as I thought it would be easier but the climate is too hot and dry here so they needed a lot of watering as they dried out. Not a good idea in a hot country.
     
  2. BB3

    BB3 Gardener

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2024
    Messages:
    897
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    A bit of gardening
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +1,659
    Does jiggling count as digging?
    I'm a chuck the compost on top and let the worms do the work gardener.
    I jiggle fertiliser in where necessary or where I've trodden.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Hanglow

      Hanglow Super Gardener

      Joined:
      Oct 27, 2021
      Messages:
      919
      Location:
      West of Scotland
      Ratings:
      +3,326
      I do no dig now after about eight nor nine years of more traditional methods, it's a bit easier and better in many ways imo. My allotment does get free manure and woodchips though, not sure if I'd be able to do it well without
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • CostasK

        CostasK Gardener

        Joined:
        Feb 19, 2022
        Messages:
        246
        Gender:
        Male
        Occupation:
        UI/UX Designer
        Location:
        County Durham
        Ratings:
        +449
        I dig deeply when it's a new area / spot, in order to amend my clay soil, but pretty much never again after that. I just add well rotted manure / mulch on top.
         
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

          Joined:
          Jul 3, 2006
          Messages:
          64,970
          Gender:
          Male
          Occupation:
          Retired - Last Century!!!
          Location:
          Herts/Essex border. Zone 8b
          Ratings:
          +127,291
          Our veg plot is now a sort of no dig one. We have it covered in porous membrane and plant veg through it (don't plant salad stuff any more). Each Autumn the membrane is rolled back, home made compost dumped on it and lightly forked in. Then the membrane is rolled back and pinned.

          We don't put any compost on the walkways, they are still covered in membrane to keep them clean, so the the growing area is quite a bit higher than the walkways. The higher/growing parts settle down during the winter.

          The only weeds that grow are those that grow in the exposed holes. They're easy to trowel out.

          The membrane helps keep the weeds out, the soil warmer (brilliant for planting crops earlier) and moisture in which is needed as our area is one of the driest in the country.

          Proper digging was a necessity in the earlier days but you reap what you sow :heehee:.

          Flower beds need regular shallow digging to get our pernicious weeds - with an occasional deep dig to remove deep rooted weeds.
           
          • Like Like x 1
          • Allotment Boy

            Allotment Boy Lifelong Allotmenteer

            Joined:
            Apr 25, 2024
            Messages:
            531
            Gender:
            Male
            Occupation:
            Retired Medical Lab Scientist
            Location:
            The edge of suburban North London
            Ratings:
            +1,940
            On the Beechgrove garden some years ago they did their own trials comparing digging and no dig. Dear old Jim Mcoll admitted he was very sceptical, but was astonished at the difference after 2-3 seasons. ( no dig much better). However I agree with @NigelJ you need an awesome amount of compost, you also need to be absolutely stringent about pulling any weeds before they get much more than one or two leaves. Most people that have tried it on my Allotment site just end up with a weed ridden mess, overrun with couch grass bindweed and dock.
             
            • Like Like x 2
            • Agree Agree x 2
            • Informative Informative x 1
            • Butterfly6

              Butterfly6 Super Gardener

              Joined:
              Mar 14, 2024
              Messages:
              679
              Gender:
              Female
              Occupation:
              Keeping busy
              Location:
              Birmingham, top of a hill facing East
              Ratings:
              +1,308
              Definitely as far as I’m concerned :yay:
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • infradig

                infradig Total Gardener

                Joined:
                Apr 28, 2022
                Messages:
                1,292
                Gender:
                Male
                Occupation:
                Freelance self preservationist
                Location:
                Solent
                Ratings:
                +1,583
                One can see that this outcome is possible, due to conflicting levels of attention to detail; if you dig you rotate the wild seed bed bringing to the 'germination level ,a selection of weed seeds of the past. If you retain weed infested grass paths to remain the reservoir of couch, buttercup,dandelion you will have their offspring. With some allotmenteers trying to create countryside rather than producing food, there again is a conflict of ideals.
                It is true that if you intend to feed the soil to feed your crops you will require sufficient compost; it can be any of a diverse assortment of organic matter, ideally a balanced assortment and logistics need to be accommodated. It probably will involve 'import' from beyond the plot. If 'wild'/amenity areas can be used for growth of comfrey, nettles,docks (cut before flowering !) even grass then this offsets the amount/volume imported. It also improves the quality of composting on site.
                Frequent attendance is necessary to produce food crops; the approach of 'sow the seeds and scatter' will not give optimal results, a daily or frequent passing, with a hoe, to get any errant weed that dare show its face, together with 'clinical' attention to any source of 'infection' pays dividends; ultimately you need to stay on top. But it works.
                 
                • Like Like x 1
                • Thevictorian

                  Thevictorian Gardener

                  Joined:
                  Mar 14, 2024
                  Messages:
                  468
                  Ratings:
                  +820
                  Charles Dowding is the no dig guy here and he has some interesting videos on his youtube channel. The one thing that surprises most is that he only uses a couple of inches of compost on the beds once a year to maintain them. If you only have small beds it's not that much compost really.

                  He has run a side by side trial with a no dig vs dig bed, with same compost input, for I believe 14 years. The short version is the no dig has performed better with a 10% extra yield. I think a lot of this is explained by the soil having to repair itself, structure wise, before the plants can take off, whereas there is no such drawback with the no dig bed.

                  At our allotment site we have bindweed and weeds coming in from the neighbours plots but a mulch in the spring does seem to reduce a vast majority of these weeds, although bindweed will always be persistent. I'd love to move over to no dig but it isn't possible with the site, so we try minimal disturbance.
                   
                  • Like Like x 2
                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

                    Joined:
                    Jan 9, 2005
                    Messages:
                    52,780
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    Occupation:
                    Retired
                    Location:
                    Mid Kent
                    Ratings:
                    +99,269
                    I was under the impression no dig was supposed to be less work, but that sounds like more work to me. :smile:
                     
                  • infradig

                    infradig Total Gardener

                    Joined:
                    Apr 28, 2022
                    Messages:
                    1,292
                    Gender:
                    Male
                    Occupation:
                    Freelance self preservationist
                    Location:
                    Solent
                    Ratings:
                    +1,583
                    How can it be ?
                    If you dig, to bury farmyard manure, it still has to be imported to the plot. If you dig, and later apply chemical fertilisers, you jeopardise the soil life on each occasion. If you grow many more weeds then you have a lot more work in killing and removing them.
                    I have done both, for thirty five years I dug, as my father did, and know the pitfalls. Now my preference is not to dig , because it is less work and physically I can still cope.
                    I now understand soil biology and can see that more finess will give efficient results.
                    The 'work' comes at the time of year which is climatically more tolerable; no more cold March easterly winds biting ones back, rather sedately spreading a light 30mm of compost as ground is cleared in October, to return in Spring to clean ground that is active, ready to receive transplanted ,presown crops from modules etc.
                    I do not presume to tell others how they should proceed; but am happy to relate, and maybe explain, what I do, that brings results.
                     
                    • Like Like x 2
                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

                      Joined:
                      Jan 9, 2005
                      Messages:
                      52,780
                      Gender:
                      Male
                      Occupation:
                      Retired
                      Location:
                      Mid Kent
                      Ratings:
                      +99,269
                      I don't have access to good manure, or really any kind of manure, I bought a bulk bag of garden compost to try to improve my veg plot a couple of years ago, in excess of £100.
                      Yes I dug it in rather than spreading it on top, it would have been less than an inch thick if I had.
                      I just don't think it's practical, I have my own compost, but again it's just a drop in the ocean.
                      It may work for some, but I don't think it's ever going to work for a lot of people.
                       
                      • Agree Agree x 1
                      • GreenFingeredPete

                        GreenFingeredPete Gardener

                        Joined:
                        Feb 6, 2025
                        Messages:
                        114
                        Gender:
                        Male
                        Occupation:
                        Apprentice Gardener
                        Location:
                        Bexleyheath
                        Ratings:
                        +142
                        Oddly enough as by magic this got mentioned on GQT yesterday.

                        I am thinking of getting half a qallotment, so wondering the direction I would take. The issue on an allotment is getting enough organic material to create no dig beds.
                         
                      • BB3

                        BB3 Gardener

                        Joined:
                        Mar 13, 2024
                        Messages:
                        897
                        Gender:
                        Female
                        Occupation:
                        A bit of gardening
                        Location:
                        London
                        Ratings:
                        +1,659
                        No dig, my weedy compost ( nothing pernicious) and a hoe works for me.
                         
                        • Like Like x 1
                        • Agree Agree x 1
                        • Allotment Boy

                          Allotment Boy Lifelong Allotmenteer

                          Joined:
                          Apr 25, 2024
                          Messages:
                          531
                          Gender:
                          Male
                          Occupation:
                          Retired Medical Lab Scientist
                          Location:
                          The edge of suburban North London
                          Ratings:
                          +1,940
                          @pete I meant to say that that is another of the issues, a lot of people mistakenly think no dig means no work, it's just different work.
                          One of the ladies on my Allotment site has been on a couple of CD's courses. As @infradig says you need to be very diligent, she told me that CD, always takes two containers when harvesting, one for the crop one for any weeds he sees while harvesting, he spends a lot of time making, and spreading compost but even he admits he has to bring extra in from elsewhere.
                          Don't get me wrong, I am not against the method in principle, I can see why, and how it works, in my experience, it's just not always practical in every situation in spite of what the advocates will claim. If you can only go to your plot once a week or even less, its likely you will be overrun by perennial weeds, if you don't dig them out.
                           
                          • Like Like x 1
                          • Agree Agree x 1
                          Loading...

                          Share This Page

                          1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                            By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
                            Dismiss Notice