Petrol/diesel prices

We have the equivalents of both the former and latter.

The 2000cc MPV is used when full of people, but more often when full of gardening machinery, bales of straw, bags of horse poo, folding bicycles, camping stuff, etc.

Our small 900cc car is used whenever we don't need anything larger.

 

Regarding wealth.

I must say most are wealthier than they were years ago.

BUT and its a big BUT, its to do with what you are used to, and most people put using the car pretty high up in their priorities.

Not an historian, but I think the last time we took a really backward step in our standard of living was probably at the start of WW2.
This is different though, fuel is artificially high, especially in the uk.
Something the EU should be doing, setting a fuel price right across Europe that allows fair competition.

If fuel prices continue to rise dramatically, the cost of living will shoot up, inflation will race away.

So I believe it is more important than just blaming the motorist, we rely on oil for so many things, delivering our food for one.
Industry such that it is in this country, cannot survive if fuel prices are not cut.

 

If my memory serves me correctly, the last time oil prices shot up (mid-late 2008), they reached $144 a barrel, and in our area, unleaded reached 118.9p per litre at the most.

Prices then dipped back down to around 85.9 pence per litre for a very short while.

Currently oil is priced at around $110 (was $105 ish yesterday) and current unleaded prices here are 124.9p per litre

So to summarize, we are being spanked up the exhaust pipe for sure.

Artificially increased prices .

We all look at the price of fuel and think paying above £1 a litre is now considered the norm, however, it really should not be the case, and the current prices are being held as supermarkets and fuel companies (bp / total / esso etc) are all in deadlock regarding prices and not budging.

 

I agree with all your sentiments, so I'm only cherry picking things to discuss (so what I have not chosen to reply to I most probably agree with - I don't want to ruffle any feathers inadvertently!)

So, in effect, we are unilaterally setting a high price. Maybe Government greed, or maybe we are trying to achieve the targets we have set for Climate Change (regardless of what the other blighters Promised/Plan to fail to achieve). High prices will stimulate the drive for alternatives, which although not very comfortable will enable us to lead the way if we are "first".

People have a choice - they can replace their car with yet-another-gaz-guzzler (a YAGG ) ... or choose something more frugal.

We have a "Bus" - a modern, Diesel, 7-seater people carrier. We try to only use this when we have "cargo" (kids or "gear") to transport, but it does sometimes get used for second-car duty. It does less than 5,000 miles a year. I think its published MPG is about around 30. When we first had it I got about 25, sometimes 30. Now with hypermiling I can easily get 40, sometimes 45. That's 25% - 30% more and represents something like 10 years free motoring in a lifetime (compared to "normal" driving style) ... and that's without changing the vehicle - and I don't crawl around the lanes I can assure you! but every time I use the brakes I ask myself "Did I have to? could I have anticipated a bit earlier?, and being a nerdy soul I also curse a lot - on a downhill stretch near us is a rural post office - often with vehicles parked outside. If I have to stop for on-coming traffic I curse that my average MPG is wrecked by the extra stop, and having to accelerate away :D :D :D - but being serious for a moment that act does make me painfully aware of the "cost" of a junction or set of traffic lights where I have to stop, rather than "filter into the traffic". So people could recoup some of the increased cost of fuel by improving their driving style. Driving with a 5 second gap instead of 2 seconds(or less :o) s0 they can lift-off instead of braking - its surprising how much fuel even such simple measures make)

Our second car is the most used. Its a modern Diesel, does probably 30,000 miles per annum (mostly business use) and usually gets 60mpg, if I'm very careful I can scrape 70 mpg, and even if I drive like a Loon I get 50mpg.

On the face of it yes, but I take the view that the solution to this is in the hands of the motorist (well, not the die-hard 4x4 driver perhaps ...) -they can change their driving style and/or change to a more frugal vehicle. The challenge will be for motor manufacturers to build vehicles which offer a doubling in fuel economy every 7 years :(

 

I'm struggling to keep one vehicle on the road.:D

I can remember the days when it was considered the norm for just one car per household.

 

Indeed. I remember,as a lad, that in my parent's village my Father and the Doctor were pretty much the only people with cars. Now all the front gardens and spare bits of grass by the road have been converted into off-street parking.

We are privileged having multiple vehicles as it means we can choose the most appropriate vehicle for the journey, only using the less frugal vehicle when we have cargo to carry. Collected hundreds of snowdrops and Aconites today, plus some tree peonies, a Daphne and the odd ornament! which would have been hard, or taken multiple trips, in the frugal vehicle.

 

In response to Kristen and your cursing :WINK1: ... what really irritates me on the road is when selfish drivers slow me down due to their bad driving... i.e. cutting me up on motorway/dual carriageway, people pulling out of junctions and altering my driving.

I always look at these as other people reducing my momentum that ive paid for!

And if you didnt believe I was a tightwad before... you will now! Kristen, join me in the tightwad corner would you We have more pennies in our pockets.[hr]

And in response to pete: We struggle to keep 1 car on the road too! Actually we havent got any car right now... bloody cam belt.

When we do eventually get a car, as much as i'd love to have a 60+ mg car, I can only go to what my budget will allow.

Considering my low budget, and the need for a large family car, I cannot really 'afford to browse'

 

I think as the roads get more and more packed with traffic, along with the traffic lights that seem these days to give preferential treatment to traffic coming out from side roads, the idea that you can drive in a manner that you like, are not possible.

Have you tried not braking on the M25 for instance?

One minute its 80 plus, the next its 50mph.
Its due to weight of traffic, lorries etc.

 

It was interesting to see the current fuel prices on the mainland.

We are paying £1-33.9p for unleaded and £1-40.9p for diesel and still rising. Ouch!

 

Indeed, there is injustice there for sure, but my point is that you should replace you current car with a more frugal car next time around. That way your cost-per-mile will not increase as dramatically as the price alone suggests. If you have a 30 mpg car now you need a 60 mpg car in 7 years time (taht will keep your motoring cost the same, in relative terms, if petrol rises 10% more than inflation). My 60 mpg car will be 9 years old then, so hopefully in your price bracket by then - I'll send you a PM when I am ready to sell it

"Have you tried not braking on the M25 for instance?

One minute its 80 plus, the next its 50mph."

Drive at 50 then Much better fuel economy than driving at 80 ... on Top Gear Clarkson said he never braked on motorways - I know he was tongue-in-cheek but if you drive at 5 seconds from the car in front you will rarely have to brake, "lift-off" will be enough. Try it?

My wife does not drive particularly close to the car in front, but she is constantly on/off the accelerator to maintain station - very inefficient - she is probably a bit under 2 seconds from the car in front. She never uses the cruise control (they say that, alone, is 10% more efficient than using the pedals manually - I'm not meaning to show-off if you don't have such a device, just illustrating that there are technological improvements that help). She gets very frustrated when I drive as apparently I'm "not making any progress" - e..g on a country road with no overtaking opportunity my 5 seconds gap is "slow" whereas following closer but not overtaking will appear to be "faster"!!

If you've tried it I'll shut up, if not give it a go - seek out a Hypermiling Forum (after all, you did seek out a Gardening Forum ...)

 

and I'm the 'just plain cheeky' person :WINK1:

 

But I only drive one at a time!

And I also have two bicycles [size=x-small](one is a folder so I can take it out in a car).[/size]

 

There is one issue that has not been mentioned on this thread. Congestion. All the time you are sat in a traffic jam, you are burning fuel and NOT making any progress. Our highway infrastructure is abysmal. Traffic planning departments seem to have lost touch with reality. The vast sums that are pouring into the exchequer from fuel duty and vat is staggering. Road Fund Licence was originally intended to pay for the upkeep of the highways. RFL rates keep increasing, but the roads just get worse. EVERY major highway in the UK is at least 15 years beyond its refurbishment due date.

Another thing. (On a mission today)!! The government and all the tree huggers, greenites all keep on about pollution, especially that generated by carbon immissions in built up areas. Just spend an hour on a flyover on any main road going into any major town or city, during the rush hour. Have a look at the amount of big gas guzzling cars that are sat in traffic jams with only the driver.

Just think how much reduction of congestion and pollution could be achieved if you couyld manage to take 25% of those lone drivers out of thier cars and get them on motorbikes instead. I don't mean the big custom stuff that I build and ride. Just basic small cc engines. This has been suggested to the government by several big motorcycle groups. The suggestions and pleas have been poo pooed by the government and transport ministry. Ken Livingston commisioned a report about the possibility of allowing bikes to use buys lanes. He didn't like what the report said, so he had it altered to read what he wanted it to say.

People do not buy motorcycles to sit in traffic. The commuter biker numbers are growing as more and more folk realise that you can get to work much quicker and pay a lot less for your journey by bike. My mate uses a little Honda CG125 for work. He gets 85 mpg, his journey takes half the time it used to take him in his truck.

The space taken by your average family saloon to park in town is enough to park five or six bikes. Do we see enough secure and designated bike parking spaces in town? NO we don't. Do we see any government encouragement to get folk out of thier cars and onto motorbikes? No we don't. Motorbikes are known NOT to cause damage to the highway and very little if any wear and tear. Does the government give any conssession by way of any reduced rate RFL? Not a cat in hells chance. How about a reduced rate of VAT on motorcycle safety clothing, helmets and boots? Scrapping the Insurance Premium tax on motorcycle insurance.

My earlier comment about taking 25% of car drivers out of thier cars and putting them on bikes, was about you, one person looking at the amount of driver only big cars going into town during rush hour. Now roll that out across the whole country. Every major town and city in the UK havingthier congestion cut by 25% makes one hell of a difference.

Chopper.

PS: My Suzuki GS1200 Bandit is easily capable of 155MPH. Yet she returns a very respectable 55mpg overall. My Ultima El Bruto chop is easily capable of doing the same speed and both bikes will out accellerate any production car, Including flashy expensive sports cars. I get a constant 50 - 55 mpg out of the chop. I get good milage because I keep them both properly tuned and serviced. A few car drivers should try that.