Please Read.....

Just a thought, but is it not the highly bred pedigree dogs and cats that seem to suffer from these problems with the immune system?
Is the proplem in the breeding?
Breeders, breeding for good looks, and not healthy animals.

 

Pete the reason you don't have a regular tetanus jab is two things, one cost, but also that the risk of tetanus is low, except in the case of a deep contaminated wound, and in those cases ainti- tetanus given following such an injury is sufficient protection.

In all my years of A/E nursing - and giving anti tetanus jabs, I never ever saw or found later, a case of tetanus. Thank goodness - not nice.

Yes your right breeders have a lot to answer for in respect of genetic problems - hip dysplasia, heart problems etc, but a lot of the conditions quoted were not diseases of the immune system.

The diseases we vaccinate children for, are in the main diseases that effect children, with some serious side effects from those diseases in children. In the same way that flu vaccination is limited in the main to the elderly.

[ 28. January 2007, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Fran ]

 

Ok, thanks Fran, but I did USED to get a tetanus jab on a regular basis.

I only mensioned the immune system as an example, ( something I know very little about), I know there are lots of other problems reported.
Its just that the pedigree dogs do seem to me to be more likely to have health problems.
Why do we grow hybrid plants?
Not quite the same I know.
:D
Its the constant year after year jabs that animal get, why do they need it and we dont?

 

I know I remember when the 5 yearly jab for tetanus was routine - but when tetany became uncommon, and with the development of humotet that can be given following injury - it was decided it was no longer necassary.

Annual vaccination of pets is simply to maintain their immunity at a certain level in respect of a few diseases that are often fatal at any time of the animal's life. As with any clinical intervention there is a risk of side effects - with vaccination, the main risk is hypersensitivity (an allergic reaction)

Kinda like getting your vaccinations up to date, when you go to foreign climes where they have much more serious diseases than we have here. Typhoid, yellow fever and the like.

In the UK human vaccination is used to protect the vulnerable - children and the elderly against the few diseases, where the outcome can be very serious in the vulnerable. If every child did not go to school the risk would be much lower. Every parent knows the increase of coughs, colds and other bugs in the family after their kids go to school :D . A very few of these vaccines give long term immunity - but not all.

I'm sure that your right that pedigree dogs by the very nature of their breeding and inbreeding, are more vulnerable to things going wrong.

 

Just to update you all a bit, what Fran is saying is, for the most part, absolutely true but ... whilst there used to be a protocol for 5 or 10 year boosters for tet, recent (like 10 years ago!) research has discovered this to be unnecessary. The fact is that antibodies numbers do drop over a period of time. However, exposure to the virus will quickly cause the a/b to regenerate bringing them up to a protective level within hours. A cautionary booster will/may be given.

And the tet virus is not on the decline. It's just that because 99% of the population are routinely covered by the jabs they get during childhood there is less occurrance of the condition. Same with measles, mumps and rubella (German measles). Also, did you know that the tet vaccine given in A/E nowadays always contains diptheria vaccine as well?

Fran, I have nursed two patients with tet, both of whom died after a frantic battle to bring down their temperature and maintain their vital signs. Not a pleasant experience for any involved. And, also for everyone's information, both men got the infection from a scratch sustained whilst pruning roses. The sometime practice of using horsemuck on roses not being without note.

Scareeee!

Incidentally, while I'm on the subject, the same is now true for Hep B. When it first became available in 1994 (+ or - a couple of years!) the protocol was 0-2-6 months then 12 months and then every 5 years thereafter. But they have found the same with this vaccine. A/b can fall to almost zero but an exposure to the virus will send them back up again to a protective level with hours. But again, exposure of an open wound (or eyes or mouth) to human body fluids is commonly followed by a prophylactic booster within 24 hours of the accident. Thta's the current protocol for hospital staff, anyway.

Sorry - I seem to have hi-jacked the thread - into the naughty corner with me!!

 

Well its all a bit technical for me, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it your saying that in tetanus at leasts, its been found that routine jabs are not necessary.

Which brings me back to the start of this thread, so why do we keep pumping vaccine into our animals, when we dont do it to ourselves.
I know we have jabs to go abroad but thats presumably because we then come accross diseases that we are not usually exposed to.
We dont keep having them every year.

 

Now that I am resident here I will not pump my babes full of vaccines. They have had the required necessary flu shots, which is a big problem. I don't think I'll go through the rabies routine with C&C because they will never go to England.

But Magic Sam is English and has a "passport" and I have to keep that up because wherever I go he goes. Not that I plan to take him back to England.

I think the initial flu shots are a necessity in any country as is the neuturing, unless you are a breeder.

We do worm twice a year.

I had to travel to West Africa in one of my jobs and went through the most horrendous routine of vaccines and whatever. Turns out I was susepticle to typhoid and actually got it by the vaccine before I went and was very ill. Then I got some kind of river fly disease in my eyes whilst I was there having taken everything possible not to.

If my animals need it, I give it ... but that's Frontline and worming, possibly necessary in the country although they don't leave the house grounds.

 

Thanks MD for the correction on why routine tetanus was stopped . I know it was and is part of standard protocol at the hospitals I worked at, to give a booster dose if none for 5 years, following a fresh lacerations/puncture wounds acquired outside. I am truly glad I never saw a case of tetany, not a nice condition at all. I don't envy you

Your right though anti-bodies do decline - one of the reasons, Pete why you have repeat jabs when going abroad, if previous ones are out of date i.e. judged by the institute of tropical diseases as I recall, to be no longer effective prophylaxis in respect of countries where certain dangerous diseases are common. It not to do with lack of exposure.

Where pets are concerned - you can't give a booster within 24 hours of exposure to the virus/bacteria, cos you don't know they've been exposed until they are ill. An annual vaccination maintains their immunity - and no I do not think that it is a way for vets to make money. Their main source of income is from trauma and chronic and age related conditions. Vaccination is very small change.

The only reason my pets would not have the annual vaccination, is if they had a clear reaction to it. Then I might take the risk, or rather they would of non vaccination.

 

[ 17. March 2007, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: lisa0307 ]

 

[ 17. March 2007, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: lisa0307 ]

 

http://www.labtestsonline.org.uk/understanding/conditions/autoimmune.html

[ 31. January 2007, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: Fran ]

 

[ 17. March 2007, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: lisa0307 ]

 

My pets have their initial jabs and then nosodes. At least if these do no good then they do no harm either. The breeder from whom I purchased two of my dogs recommended this, and she always uses homeopathic remedies for her dogs.
http://www.cyberpet.com/dogs/articles/health/nosodes.htm

However if you need to put your animals in kennels then they have to be up to date with their vaccinations, also if they go abroad, so vets are not the only culprits.

 

[ 17. March 2007, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: lisa0307 ]

 

Lisa are you saying that pet owners should pay for titre testing for all the diseases vaccination covers, BEFORE annual vaccination to prevent the small risk of their pet having a hypersensitive reaction.

Or are you advising that all pet owners should cease vaccination - yet you quote that the manufactures are advising vaccination every 3-4 years.


In which case say so - and less of the judgemental and emotive language that vets are money hungry parasites. Vaccination is only small change in respect of their income, as your "friend" should have been well able to advise you.

A coherent, logical, and evidence based arguement in respect of when our pets should or should not be vaccinated against diseases that could disable or kill them would be more useful and informative.

I would be happy to change my view that annual vaccination is effective in protecting my pet, with a small risk of hypersensitive reaction - but I need some factual scientific evidence. Not emotive stories.

Remember that families are living with the anxiety effects of the discredited study in respect of autism and mmr.

So I await your evidence.