Processing the Harvest

Am onto Roman Britain......how lost the world was before Christianity to bring about the incredible drive for intellectual advancement and justice.

The 350 years of Roman Britain was marked by an enduring peace and commerce. Roads built and safety ensured. But from that - just stagnation. The Romans laid out the new cities, sewers, water, roads, baths, temples, markets, shops - all meticulously planned and built in the same perfect way that hundreds of years Romans did it.

And from the first to the end the population never increased, much to the disappointment of Rome and Britain. The agriculture was the same as it was from the bronze age. Digging sticks and thin scratching plows. Life became more aesthetic and luxurious, people literate, but not more prosperous in a GDP way. Like China, South America, and the lands of pagans everywhere the upper levels found a level of comfort and style and then froze the society into maintaining that. That is the most striking feature of all British past - the complete lack of innovation and advancement prior to Christianity. 5000 years and the peasants and small hill farmers still dug with digging sticks and scratching plows which could only work the soft, less fecund, soil of the hills. Advancement at the most basic level moves forward on military and war, and agriculture, - but these need popular (common) intellectual drive to make prosperity.

Britain lead in all this with the high development of Monastic life. The single greatest event of man's history. Tens of thousand of Monks copying books and supporting a top of priests who perused intellectual paths. All the philosophy and the basis for science itself came from these men. The Church was the incubator for civilization, Christianity the medium. Christianity is interpreting the bible and creation, is intellectual - other religions than Judaism are written in stone.

Then the pagan rulers were converted and made literate, agriculture blossomed under the Church lands and the agriculture could now support a large population of urban people with the Christian imperative of intellectual and practical works. By the 700's AD deep plows were used which finally opened the European fertile, heavy soils, to agriculture.

Britain and Italy led the world in this, was the creator of the modern world which freed us from so much suffering. Secular society could never have made the modern world as Pagans could not. This loop resting on agricultural advancement made possible by intellectual advancement which fed more urban populations to pursue intellectual advancement gave us the modern world. Christianity's basic fairness was the key - the common man was to be respected and bettered; where intellectual advancement was fundamental to understand god, the bible, and the world. Roman civilization lacked this.

All this incredible benefit we enjoy - amazing. The harvest is/was the foundation - The intellectual drive of monotheism the structure.

 

Eh?

Chritianity had very little to do with scientific advancement, it was in their interests to keep the peasants uneducated and terrified of eternal damnation. That way the church became the richest land owners in the country and had all their food provided for them, their buildings built for next to nothing by a population that had been told that an invisible all seeing deiety was watching their every move.

 

I'm not going to reply to your last post Colne. I have issues with what you have written and want to avoid an argument!

 

Actually you are wrong on all counts. This is popular secular left teachings but had no relation to actual Western history. Start with an easy one, names every one knows - Thomas Aquinas, the greatest Theologian and Philosopher, the base of modern Western Philosophy and ethics, reconciling Aristotle with Christianity.

But Google St Augustine, the first Bishop of Canterbury in 600 AD, establishing the first school in savage Saxony. St Patrick the Roman Christian of the fifth century keeping the light of Christianity going in Ireland and later Scotland. All education, philosophy, science, was founded in Christian monasteries which created the schools and universities. Developed and then educated the leaders in complex thought.

All Western Europe was under utterly savage pagan tribes. All without industry and illiterate - even their leaders and lieutenants were illiterate. You really think these savages who had destroyed Rome developed Western Civilization wile carrying the Church as a millstone around its neck?

"In the Middle Ages, monasteries conserved and copied ancient manuscripts in their scriptoria. A prospective monk first learned grammar, logic, and oratory. Later, he would take up mathematics, astronomy, and music. The students would use a stylus on wax. Later, when their handwriting improved, they would be given ink and parchment. Originally the monasteries only taught future monks, but later some monasteries decided to teach others as well. Eventually, many of those schools became universities. Even though the church supported these universities, they were no longer a part of the monasteries.[25] The dialectical dispute between Peter Abelard and William of Champeaux in the early 12th century over the methods of philosophic ontology led to a schism between the Catholic Orthodox of the School of Notre Dame in Paris and the student body, leading to the establishment of Free Schools and the concept of an autonomous University, soon copied elsewhere in Europe." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_monasticism

(these autonomous universities being taught Church education, by Churchmen)

But oh, well - I was just mentioning where our agriculture came from (as in GC) - not the barbarians or the Romans, but was indigenously Western Christian. The liberal left has re-written Western history to despise the Christian heritage which it sprang from - and now to despise Western History all together; except for liberal secular bits. I believe more time is spent in schools on Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, and Mohammad - than on Alfred the Great, The Henrys, Elizabeth and Victoria, let alone the rest of British greats. I hate to think what Clive of India is called in modern comps.

But so it goes, I hope the admins go not begrudge the bandwith I used on this.

And tonight kale and trout.

 

No i'm not. No one taught me History, I learned it myself.

No it didn't. Agricullture and animal husbandry was established before the building of Stonehenge, 5000 years ago. It continued thru the Roman occupation when Britain was the bread basket of the empire and King Alfred certainly couldn't have burned the cakes if someone hadn't farmed the wheat to make them.

All the church did was cash in on an already existing system, it's the ultimate scam, i'll pray for your eternal soul as long as you feed me for the rest of my life.

To quote Jeffrey Lee Pearce - "Gonna be the best preacher, so I don't have to work."

 

Very nice, was that steamed or baked?

 

Actually the trout was pan fried with 'Blacking Seasoning' the Siberian Kale boiled - then macaroni and cheese, an apple cake with raspberry dark chocolate ice cream. No soup.

And I love you quoting Pearce as your historical and ethical base. Here he is demonstrating his philosophical creed:



Shiney has flounced, I think someone else as well, because ethics and history were raised and you Zigs seem to have gotten your hackles up a bit.

But as I have said from the start here - I garden because I must. Nature calls to me - I spent all of my life drawn to it, years formally studying it at college and university, and much of my life living in the remotest wilderness. The wheel of life is so strong; I am on it and see clearly that it will soon crush me like Juggernaut, the Indian personification of this, and that life will be as before for all existence, but not for me.

Most of my life is spent indoors though - and then I think of practical things, the Industrial revolution (I spent serious time fallowing the places where it happened) and in the modern life, and in history which I spend hours a day on, and in philosophy.

So that is what gardening brings me to, to be in life and nature actively - why do us gardeners feel we must grow and manipulate nature? Why grow stuff and eat it, preserve it, when if 10% of that energy was spent on paid work we could more than pay for the actual food we produce.

Shiney posted pictures of modern Eastern peasants working barefoot all day to scratch out a mere existence. Bare foot in that water meaning the debilitating disease Shistosomiasis from snail parasites, malaria from mosquitoes, and all the misery of back breaking drudge work.

I have climate control, big house with all the comforts, nice truck, ease and comfort. Why? Ethically and historically why?

Finally you said "It continued thru the Roman occupation when Britain was the bread basket of the empire" Britain has never been anyone's bread basket but the indigenous people. The Roman bread basket was North Africa. Britain's value to Rome was in Tin especially, but gold, lead, and some other natural resources - and slaves and soldiers. Britain was colonized because it was there (Julius Caesar had invaded 50BC and left as it was not worth holding) and Claudius needed a triumph (AD 43) - and if colonized it would stop Gaul from having it for resources and refuge.

But that was exactly my point. 5000 years - and then through the Roman 400 years, and agriculture was still as primitive as the early time. Till Christianity was fully established under Alfred's grand son, agriculture, and all progress, was static and primitive.

Britain was British Celtic-speaking people till the Saxon colonization of the sixth century, then the Norse conquest and colonization beginning 800AD and Alfred and dynasty uniting them all under Christianity to become England.

 

Didn't mention anything about Pearce as an historical base, but he had a point about preaching.

The Romans introduced new varieties of crops and animals, didn't need religion to motivate them. They farmed Britain when North Africa failed from deforestation. Britain was warmer for a while but the climate got wetter at the end of the period.

I don't see the connection with the church and agriculture or education, it was more the rise of machinery that freed folk from "the daily grind" so that they had more time to improve their lot.

I will admit that Gregor Mendel's work with genetics was very useful, but I see no huge leaps in agriculture till the industrial age, a conversion to christianity didn't suddenly bring forth improved methods or crops.

Pan fried sounds good

 

Well actually all science came from the Church, as well as literature - the first books written in English were from Priests. Books on history and philosophy - later maths and all subjects for university.

The scientific agricultural revolution during the Middle ages was the three field rotation and the deep turning plow which opened the fertile clay soils of the bottom lands which till then were just for grazing; the hill lighter soils that were the land that could be farmed previously were soon depleted by cropping.

The Romans brought all manner of new crops and luxuries - but no net increase in agriculture production - that is why the cities they built were never fully occupied, the population did not increase even with 400 years of law and peace. The British loved being part of Pax Roma, but merely stagnated.

From a lifetime of being exposed to the Church - my mother's best friend was an Archbishop and many Priests and missionaries of various kinds. Almost all the justice and charity in the world are from Christian societies, from Christianity. Atheism is fine in a wealthy Christian society; even if it has turned secular. It has that Christian culture.

Atheism as a governing philosophy has brought Mao 50,000,000 killed, families and communities destroying each other, death camps and genocide. Stalin the same with 20,000,000 killed, executed, starved, and destroyed. Atheism is a-moral, can be nice in nice times but wicked in hard times. Who stopped slavery? Christian British 1833. Saudi Arabia outlawed it in 1963 under international pressure. Who built the leper colonies around the world? the WHO under Christian leadership who then were staffed by American missionaries to whom it was a death sentence.

Under the House of Wessex, Egbert, Alfred, Edmund, Ethelred, Edmund Ironside, and finally Edgar, England was made - (well two invasions in 100 years to complete it - the Danes under Canute and William 1066 Normans) And with the Christian learning illiterate beasts of savages became modern Nations.

Edgar was the final Wessex and brought long stability where the great re-birth of monastic life began. English books were sent from the monasteries where greats like Eflic, Abbot, produced the first English Literature, and Religious tracts in the vernacular English. Literacy and thought spread amongst all the nobility and even common people of status. Universities that taught lay people began under the monasteries and so high learning and philosophy and science.

In the Feudal days the nobility held their land from the King and dividing it amongst sons was impossible, therefore the younger son was sent to the Church to stop his claims on the estate. These were people of power and wealth and vast drive, the best selected by the most harsh Darwinism, and the Church educated them for priesthood, a full university education. And so education was given to the ruling families, and thus to Western society.

That computer you are at is from the Christian monastic system of intellectualism. They were great universities, great study, science, literature, and thought, and all the charity and teaching came from them.

The other great world civilizations? dead ends. Brief candle, then just smoldering on and finally snuffed. Christian West brought intellectualism, and charity, and so good governance and education. The common man was respected unlike any other culture.

The worlds religions, and thus culture: Judaism and Christianity give principals and then man must figure out how to construct society by them. They are intellectual.

Islam, Confucianism - they tell you all laws, how and when to brush your teeth, which hand to eat from, all the laws set in writing and unchangeable ever. No thought, it may bring about heresy. 1 Nobel prize in science from a Moslem, in Chemistry, taught and researched at Western universities. Almost all Nobel prizes from Christian countries, from Christian nations universities.

Anyway, Happy Christmas.

 

I'm on ALKA SELTZER already Colne...

lighten up a bit,
Jenny
:reindeer lights:

 

Well i'm glad it's all so clear cut for you Colne

I could argue the toss for months over this but i'm not gonna bother. You keep on dividing the loaves and fishes and i'll keep on catching and growing them

Have a good Christmas

 

Dug up the Potato Clamp today

Celeriac didn't do to well, but got a few odds and sods for Christmas Day



Cook demanded a bag of fresh Saladings too, struggled to get that, but managed half a bag, not bad for the time of year.

Currently washing the spuds, 2 of them are going in my mates kettle as payback

 

I hope to make a Christmas video, hope you are all well too. A lovely, sunny, day out but no group meal this time but I am still roasting a turkey - one friend coming over though. I will really try next year to do better and plan properly so we have a proper Christmas meal with friends. I also wish I was in London with my parents but that will be later; London Christmas is gorgeous, especially the windows of the main shopping places - Harrods, Selfridges.......I feel such a nostalgia - and the wet, dark London pavements are more invocative of Christmas in my mind than this warm bright day. St Pauls and Westminster Abby; St Pauls charges to go in now days! But go when they have a service and it is free. As a boy it seemed we were dragged through every Cathedral in Europe, and they are wonderful.

I was up reading of the Magna Carta at 3 this morning, a very odd document lying out Feudal rules for King and Nobility, certainly no sort of democratic rights for the masses, but for some reason seemed Christmassy, although that was June 1215. King John would have re-grouped and slaughtered all the Barons who had so humiliated him but died from un-related causes instead so it lived on, to the present even. And I post a picture of Flora dog with a chick on her head for my Christmas image.



Merry Christmas -

loved the celery picture, should be on the cover of 'Country Life Gourmet' magazine. It is such a perfect image of genuine home grown at the end of the spectrum of real gardening; to balance those perfect summer veg pictures.

 

I'm out of here too Colne,
Jenny