Purple Vine

Good morning, Peter, thank you so much for checking this out. I only took two small snippets and have one in water on the kitchen windowsill and the other I dipped in rooting powder and have potted it ... so, fingers crossed. I really loved this climber/shrub/plant!

I have six others. One deep pink one which I have to keep in check as it grows so quickly and five (one peach, two lavender and two white) in my Scarborough Fayre border (Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme ... English, Wild and Lemon). I think they may all the same species, but perhaps not the deep pink one. I lost a silver-leafed one with blue flowers.

Do you think you could identify them for me if I took closeups?

 

Vicky - I am very much of a novice with Salvias. But give it a try. There are books, sites like Robin's, and when we are all flummoxed we could ask Robin again, or I could post it here http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/salvia/ which is a forum where I go sometimes and where Robin goes.

A lot of Salvia flowers look rather similar, so as well as some photos a bit of description may help. Like it is woody and shrub like, or soft and herbaceous (clump forming, or arising from a basal rosette). Also size of plant, size of flower, size shape and smell of leaf, and when and how long does it flower for etc.

 

Hello again, Peter. Sorry, I thought you were quite an expert on them!

I've gone through Robin's 35 pages at 12 photos per page several times and became thoroughly confused.

I would really just like to know which species they are. I'm sure the solitary one is different than the five, which look identical except for the colours. All flowers are about 2cm long. The leaves are totally different in size. The solitary one is "soft" and is about 110cm tall at the moment having been recently trimmed. The five are "woodier". The scent is different from the solitary one to the five, but both herbal, with the solitary one being stronger.

Here is the solitary one ...





... and the five which got severely damaged with the building works a couple of months ago but are now rallying around with a little TLC ...





... and the leaves, the five on the left, the solitary on the right ...



They flower year round here in continuous flushes, I believe. I'm working with someone, documenting what is blooming every week here so we'll see come the winter months.

 

Hi LoL. I am certainly no expert in Salvias, though I have taken an interest in them and am currently growing about 14 different kinds. What I have discovered is that the more you learn about them the more you realise how little you know.

There are about 1,000 different species, and sometimes the differences between them are pretty small. Its also a relatively new area as many have only recently been discovered. For instance I am growing Salvia darcyi, which was only discovered in Mexico in 1991. If your Salvias had been found growing wild in the mountains, it would be very difficult to say what they were. However I assume that they are cultivated ones, and there are relatively few common cultivated species.

I would think that the five are Salvia microphylla (small leaf), which is a shrubby plant from Mexico. Strictly speaking there is a small group of very closely related Salvias, S. microphylla, S. greggii and their hybride S. x jamensis. They are very popular in cultivation with loads of named cultivars in a wide range of colours in the red/pink/purple range with white and blue as well. A particular feature that makes them so popular is their long flowering period. Mine flowers for 6 months of the year, and with your weather they could flower for even longer. If they get cut by frost they grow again from the base, but if they don't they continue to grow and get woody and some can grow to 10 feet. The fat lower lips of the flower are also similar to mine.

The single one I am not so sure about. There are two main groups of shrubby Salvias - Mexican and European. The European ones are S officinalis, the culinary herb, and other closely related species. They would have a stronger smell, but in the UK they would not flower for such a long period (if at all). The long flowering period and the fat lower lips of your single plant make me think it is another S microphylla. There can be quite a big variation in leaf size.

I have just posted your pictures on the Salvia forum http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/salvia/msg101624122456.html letssee what happens. You can follow the thread via the link, but can't post without being a member.

 

Thank you so much, Peter, that's a start anyway.

I think these are all cultivated ... all bought ove the last few years from my little Dutch/German garden centre I go to. The original one for identification is up in the mountains and I can't say how long it's been there but I do know that the couple who bought the hamlet is of mixed nationality and one I believe is Dutch, so yet again, something perhaps brought from there?

Thank you also for posting it on the gardenweb forum on my behalf and as you say, let's see what happens.

Speak as and when.

 

Bingo - we have hit gold. Have a look at the Salvia forum link. rich dufresne is a leading expert in the US. He used to run a nursery specialising in Salvias, and I think he is now retired but still has some involvement.

Not only has he confirmed that they are both from the S microphylla/gregii group, but he has actually given them names. Let me know if he is right about the colours and I will feed that back to him.

 

Good morning, Peter ... talk about service!

Rich does seem to agree with you, you clever clogs.

I must say I got a little confused with his wording ...

"The last image helps a lot The smaller one looks like S. greggii Furman's Red, the larger one like S. greggii x microphylla Maraschino from the foliage shape. If the first one is a fuchsia color rather than a pure red, it might be Raspberry Royale. The large one should be a pure red.

If I have guessed the colors wrong, let me know. There are similar hybrids and forms to the guesses above, like Keter's Red for the Furman's Red."

I would agree the solitary plant could be called the Raspberry Royale as it is more fuschia coloured than pure red.

The second closeup of one of the five is not true ... the flowers in question are more lavender coloured and the other two colours are peach and white (there are two lavender, two white and one peach). It is so difficult to get true colours with the bright sunshine ... sorry, not rubbing that it, but things seem to "glow". There are few flowers to photograph as well as I trimmed everything last week.

Again, thank you so much for all this effort you have gone to. When I have time, I shall go through Robin's pictures again as I want to find out what the silver-leafed/blue flowered one I had and lost was called and perhaps I'll be able to find it again.

I'm also hoping my cuttings take of the S guaranitica ... and if they do, I shall share with you, if you like.

PS Algarve is in Zone 10, the rest of Portugal is 9.

 

Hi Lol

Yes I had to read the post a few times. I think what he is saying is that if the single, large leaved flower, is pure red it looks like 'Maraschino' but if it is a fuschia colour (more purple red) it might be 'Rasberry Royale'

http://www.crownsvillenursery.com/salvias.htm This site shows them both - note that it says the 'Maraschino' is from Richard Dufresne's garden. If you Google either name with Salvia added you will get lots of links. You can also click on images at the top (next to Web). The only problem is that you can't really trust their colours.

I fully understand that colours never come out quite true, so I think it would be difficult to identify a cultivar name for the others on colour alone. I was about to ask Rich whether he went on more than just colour, when I realised he had said that the leaf picture was a key element. As I said there are lots of cultivars in different shades but otherwise identical, and sometimes the same plant appears in Europe but under a different name.

I think the main thing is that they are Salvia microphylla/greggii, which are virtually identical species. Consequently the properties and treatment are the same.

Thanks for the offer of a cutting from your S.guaranitica. Yes I would love one. I have just taken some cuttings of my own Salvias, and if successful I can pass some on. There are a number that are quite different from yours - see my post in 'Whats looking good in October'. I think they would love your climate.

Touche - I did look at my map and saw Portugal was part 9 and part 10. But I wasn't sure what part you were in. As you know in the UK we hardly ever use zones, but the US covers such a large area that it is a vital part of the information exchange.

 

Peter, I can't find your thread on the Salvia cuttings, so I'll say here that I went and collected the three rootings this morning, thank you very much.

Also, I have good news ... the S guaranitica, the Salvia being the discussion of this thread originally, has a mass of little roots on it in the water on the kitchen windowsill. I'm not sure how the potted one is faring. I had also put a cutting of the purple one of the five in the water and it has a tiny root, so water rooting is possible.

I'll keep you posted on the S guaranitica.