Recently Over-seeded Lawn

No matter what you try different grass species creep in. poa annua covers quite a few grasses, some are short lived, others will survive all year then you have reptans ie creeping.
This type of grass likes low cutting heights which is a problem but it can be used on golf courses all be it a different F variant of reptans. It’s known as an aggressive weed grass.
Some golf courses due to it being so aggressive will maintain it.

the empathy I found very weak and had to apply far more for better results. It’s really just an in-between feed and you need to apply a better quality fertiliser to aid the grass. Seaweed is a good product when used with other products.
The feed is not responsible for the grass invasion.

So by using a cylinder and a low cut the type of grass you have likes the conditions of the cut. The way to combat it is either make it the dominating grass type or it’s a case of regular vert cutting, dress and seeding to try to limit its appearance to some extent.
You need a very tight appearance like a golf green and you need to cut daily to keep the flower heads off and the appearance to level out. Short grass is high maintenance.

regarding your Neighbours grass as it’s much longer you’ll probably find that has no problems with the poa grass you have as it can’t survive as well in longer turfed areas.

 

Erroneous post deleted.

 

Thank you for this detailed, rich advice. I do have a vertical cutting cylinder which I'll start using tomorrow. You have given me quite a lot to be going on with and, so, I hope to be able to leave you in peace for the foreseeable future!

Could you please suggest a fertilizer to combine with your previously suggested Amvista L9? And also, what would be a really good dominant grass seed to overseed and start the combat with?

 

I use these for my fertilisers.

Lawn Fertiliser, Paddock Fertiliser, Grass Seed, Pesticides, Weedkillers & Spraying Equipment | Agrigem Ltd

they do a good range of liquid feeds and granular including seeds. Not sure if they offer smaller quality on the seed front but worth asking.
Their Nutri-Gem is seedweed based with added elements but a stronger kick on the NPK levels.
You would be looking at fescue/bentgrass types which tolerate low cuts and form a dense cover.

for dressing many golf courses are using what’s called iron sand on the greens. This is typically 30% loam and 70% sand. Your other option is normal top dressing which is the opposite at 30% sand and 70% loam.

 

Please see attached!

 

Not a problem and thank you

 

Dear Liz the pot,

One of the main characteristics of pests is that they keep coming back … so, I am back!

Very briefly, though (I know you are busy): re: your quote above, doesn’t such regular vert cutting regularly tear out the seedlings, regularly bringing one back to square one? … How does that paradoxical combination work?

 

not a problem :-) a lot depends on the machine and depth. You don’t want to carve up the area but it should be a clean slice so min damage is achieved so don’t go crazy on depth. Single pass or double if needed but you don’t need to do it as regular as we would on the greens as we need to achieve a flat and even ball speed. You need to promote better growth and to combat the problem grasses. Don’t forget when you vert cut to make sure the soil is not bone dry so some watering the night before is needed depending on weather.
You are trying to stress the problem grass while making the finer grass thicker so it becomes the dominant type. You may have to remove some or monitor and work at getting the turf up to scratch.

 

With herbicides, they can be classified as either pre-or post-emergent herbicides. Pre-emergent herbicides act by creating a barrier at the soil surface that prevents root growth with the exception to this being oxadiazon which acts only on shoots. They should only be applied to established turf and assuming no resistance issues exist, most will provide a similar level of control if applied before germination and are sufficiently watered in. The major difference will be the longevity of the control which can vary dramatically.

Post-emergent herbicides act after the weed has appeared so if you already have a weed problem these are what you should use. Pre and Post have specific use requirements depending on what is actually in them.

The key to managing any weeds in turf is by a combination of cultural and chemical means. With a healthy full cover of turf, there is little opportunity for winter grass to become established.

 

Hi Jerry.
In the U.K. we have no herbicides that act as a residual on turf areas that do not harm the grass available to the public for public use. Those that are or were available have very limited use and tackle specific type of plants ie. Pan Isoxaben which has been discontinued.

 

OK Liz ill have a look and see what you do have at your end of things :-)

 

Thanks to a lot of advice received on this forum (Liz the pot, Pete, Perki), things have improved a great deal; not there yet, but if you compare the pic below to the ones I loaded up on May 10th, there is a lot more green and a lot less yellow. Verticutting and overseeding seem to have been very effective.

Feeding is still a dilemma, having to use low Nitrogen because of the regular overseeding, so I am currently experimenting with a combination of A1 Lawn New Grass Pre-Seed & Pre-Turf Fertiliser - [6-9-6] Phosphorus Rich Feed with Potassium & Nitrogen - UK Professional Grade to Accelerate Germination together with Multi-Mite® 5 Ltr LIQUID SEAWEED - FAST Despatch - Organic Concentrate Plant Fertiliser Trees Lawn Veg and House Plants Root or Foliar Feed

After a while, I am hoping to be able to use the Miracle-Gro 119689 Evergreen Complete 4 in 1 Lawn Food which I have stored away until higher levels of Nitrogen and weed-killers are permitted.

I had not come across the concept of “winter grasses” but what you say makes perfect sense and I look forward to any advice regarding fertilizers which target the grass but do not burn it.

 

If you want to use something safe the best options are a CRF (controlled release fertilizer) like Osmocote, Nutricote etc as these are 100% coated and will not burn so don't need watering in. These come in various longevities so Id suggest a 3-4 month option would be best. This means they are intended to last 3-4 months at 21C. So if its colder than this they will last longer etc. Your next best option taking the climate into consideration will be IBDU in the cooler months. Can you get Floranid there?

 

Thank you so much for these guidelines.

Yes, Osmocote, Nutricote, and Floranid are all available here in England.

As I am trying gradually to replace patches of “bad grasses” (what I think you have identified as “winter grass”), I am doing quite a bit of verticutting and overseeding. So, if I have understood you correctly, you are suggesting that, because Osmocote and Nutricote are slow releasing fertilizers, they would not act quickly enough to kill the overseeded seedlings, is that right?

I find the whole concept of overseeding puzzling: the tiny shoots are hard enough to see when they first come through on bare patches but completely invisible among established grass blades, so one never knows if one is getting anywhere at all with them (?).

Is there a reason you singled out Floranid?

 

I think winter grass relates to warm and cool climate grasses so ours will be different to Jerrys.

I would suggest using a good trading company ie. pro green, Agrigem and so on where you build up a friendly relationship and they can work with you giving you advise on the best fertilisers.
Considering we’ve seen a huge jump in costs here in the U.K. you would pay say £80 to 90 a bag but will have to store it nicely as you will not use it all.

We use slow release on the greens and Tees so the growth is controlled ie, the green speed is constant throughout the day. We use growth regulators too to help encourage less growth and better root production on the Tees but your lawn will be different as tees and greens are built up from scratch where you might have a high clay or chalk content which is where domestic lawn care becomes fun.
Nowadays it’s more normal to see sand used heavily in dressings which and combined with a Sandy soil makeup is where a slow release comes into play. Clubs that use sand heavily see an increase in fertilisers and chemical use.

You would see the new grass if the cut was very low as you will notice the white tips which is one reason recently seeded sports grounds are verti cut as it helps to remove that look.

Regarding your yellow grass, have you lifted up a section to check for grubs? Lots around at the moment but if there is say leather jackets unfortunately you need to use the old method of covering the grass overnight and giving it a good water then first thing in the morning is lifting it and cutting all be it lower. Unfortunately there’s no chemical control now for domestic use.

there’s also the pH level which in a simple way effects how the fertiliser reacts or how the plant reacts to it so for example a pH level above 7 could mean Iron chlorosis. Iron is the one micronutrient that soils are more likely to be deficient in.
Iron though is not part of the chlorophyll but at the same time chlorophyll will not be formed if Fe is not there in sufficient amounts. Easy to spot as when you feed the grass with an iron based product you notice it’s colour does not change to expected results. a soil test would be needed if that’s an issue and you did use a fertiliser that has an iron content to a degree so bare in mind that.