Separate Moan Thread About The Election

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by shiney, Jun 22, 2024.

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  1. Punkdoc

    Punkdoc Super Gardener

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    Just read @amancalledgeorge post, beautifully summarises why people should be worried and why some of us on this thread are so against Reform.
     
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    • Tidemark

      Tidemark Gardener

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      Yes, and one of my ancestors, with “a funny name” joined up to fight to help his fellow British countrymen and they Anglicised his surname to make it easier to pronounce. After the war he kept the “official” spelling. I never knew about it until I did some genealogy.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        How many "fully paid up equity" members (his own words) can you think of that would align politically with Reform? Then calculate the odds of Channel 4 picking him out of all of the volunteers.... there may not be any direct link between him and C4, but I'd like to bet there is an indirect one somewhere.

        I really, really hope the police arrest and charge him for his language - maybe then his little stunt/role might not seem quite such a good idea.
         
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        • Fat Controller

          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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          See, now this is exactly the sort of conflation that happens with discussions like this. Where has anyone on this thread said that anyone should be "send back to where they came from"? Indeed, where has anyone on this thread said that nobody should be allowed to migrate to the UK, or that they are against people of other races (or even religions or sexualities)? It has been insinuated that there are some of us on this thread think like that, but that is as far as it goes - pure insinuation/speculation.

          Now, what HAS been said is that we have had a vast increase in the population of this country in the past 15 years and not one single public service has been able to expand or evolve rapidly enough and that includes housing... and before all the shouting and wailing starts that it is because things are under-funded, YES they are underfunded.. BUT even if we were lobbing tons of money at them, things simply wouldn't have been able to be built rapidly enough in the timescale. Worse still, we are at a point where people are arriving and we are putting them up in hotels that cost an absolute fortune - further depleting that pool of money we use for things like roads and the NHS etc... so what do we do? We cannot cope as it is.

          That is NOT saying that anyone should be "sent back to where they came from" but it IS saying, stop as many of them coming!
           
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          • Tidemark

            Tidemark Gardener

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            I wasn’t meaning that anyone on this forum said or believed anything. I was merely putting forward some ideas that seem to be held in the general population. Ideas that I personally don’t hold. I was throwing them up in the air for people here to look at and comment on.

            Anyway, enough already. I have foreign blood in my veins and I’m married to a foreigner. No more to be said from me on this thread.
             
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            • pete

              pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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              I just think people are reading a few headlines, make things up in their own mind and just get the wrong idea.
              Some very bigoted thinking going on and its not from Reform.
              Some fairly crazy accusations are being made and assumed or invented.
               
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              • Nikolaos

                Nikolaos Total Gardener

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                By that post's flawed logic, no-one should ever vote for a center-left party because they might eventually become Communists. Just completely hysterical thinking.
                 
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                • Panda2

                  Panda2 Gardener

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                  With all due respect @Fat Controller you have made a couple of statements that just aren’t correct.

                  Whole complexes of flats and housing estates are constructed all with utility connections & common spaces within 6 months to a couple of years depending on the size of the project. The government has information to predict population growth and data to monitor it. Where housing & services have not matched population growth that was a policy choice or failure of government planning.


                  This definitely is policy choice to house people in hotels, substandard accommodation and, unbelievably, boats for lengthy periods of time. The time taken to process entry claims is entirely in government hands and there has been an abject failure to process those claims in a timely or consistent manner, this has been brought up in Parliament countless times. There were also options to deal with these claims before they cross, in countries such as France. Again, the choice not to was a deliberate one.
                  .
                   
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                  • Fat Controller

                    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                    @Panda2 how can you say it is incorrect? A whole housing estate being built in 6 months isn't evidence that we can build sufficient homes to house over 2 million people.

                    Planning applications alone take months or even years - and that is for builds where there is access to suitable utilities. The quantity of increase in population is around a third that of the population of Scotland.

                    It may well be a failure of planning, but physically being able to deliver that quantity of homes in the timescale - impossible.
                     
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                    • Loofah

                      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                      Just wondering but have you ever worked in the public sector? It really doesn't work the way you think it does or should. (You can also stop that sentence earlier at 'it really doesn't work '!)
                       
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                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                        Well in a weeks time there wont be any illegal migration because they will be busy "smashing the gangs" and "growing the economy", I wish them well.:roflol:

                        I've always wondered what "processing applications" really means, I assume just giving them all the green light?
                         
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                        • Panda2

                          Panda2 Gardener

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                          @Fat Controller, they had 15 years as you said for 2m. I think population growth was higher from a quick google but possibly we are talking homes rather than people? Happy to be corrected.

                          According to the government in July 2023 2.2m homes had been built since 2010. They had committed to building 1m homes in that parliament, so 5 years, in their manifesto. According to Sunak they would meet that commitment.

                          The current Labour manifesto commits to 1.5m homes over the next 5 years.

                          So 2million was certainly possible over that period of 15 years in my opinion.

                          Also, not really in answer to your question but of interest maybe, at the 2021 census there were 1.5m unoccupied dwellings in England & Wales. Some of these are second homes/holiday homes but the ONS estimated 89% were truly vacant.
                           
                        • Panda2

                          Panda2 Gardener

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                          @Loofah, no not public sector but some knowledge of construction and a healthy interest in politics :wallbanging:

                          There are lots of things that affect achieving what is needed, that’s what governments are there to plan & manage.
                           
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                          • Panda2

                            Panda2 Gardener

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                            Not wanting to post and run but I am going for a G&T in the garden & to admire my petunias now so have a good evening all.
                             
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                            • Fat Controller

                              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                              @Panda2 I was being kind with the 2m figure (so ballpark) - to give a flavour of the planning process alone, there is a development quite near me for circa 150 homes as a supported retirement community; planning, currently been in play for over five years. The land they are wanting to use has had numerous attempts at planning applications for well over 40 years (all declined).

                              It is not only bricks and mortar that is the problem - energy supply is now also a real issue. Developers in West London were told 'no more' because the grid simply had no capacity left. My own industry, being electrified, has sites where we cannot get supply from the grid and are going to have to use a DC supply from the underground or potentially seek supply from the railways. You can't build houses if folks cannot cook, light, heat & shower in them.
                               
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